WTF Sh*t's F*cked Up and Bullsh*t - a "Who Cares" thread for news

[WolfEyes]

A property manager for several low-income apartment complexes in Tennessee cashed some of the tenants' rent payments and kept the money for herself rather than turning it in to the company, and as a result she has been fired and is facing charges in a few different counties for the thefts.

However the rental company - while acknowledging the fact that one of their own employees stole the money - is telling tenants that they are responsible for paying back-rent to cover what was stolen:

The apartments have a locked deposit box than tenants deposit their rent checks or money orders into every month, and the only one with the key is the property manager whose job is to collect those money orders and take them to the company. My first very first apartment worked like this, although my property manager was live-in and I don't know if the one in this case was necessarily, since she was responsible apparently for a few properties in different towns. But an any rate, as a tenant, your responsibility is to put your money order in that slot by the cutoff date, and that's basically it. Once it's in the deposit box, it's in the hands of the apartment company.

But in a letter to tenants from the management company, it never acknowledges the former manager as such, only as "a person you trusted with your money", and repeatedly characterizes the money as having been stolen from them (the tenants). The letter even urges them to obtain copies of their spent money orders and file individual complaints of theft with the police, which would reinforce that the money was stolen from the tenants before the apartment company got it, rather than stolen by their own employee after she collected it in the course of her duties as an employee.

Good luck with that holding up in court. Too bad none of the tenants are likely to file a lawsuit or class action.

Not to mention it won't fly with the insurance company either.

 

[Innula Zenovka]

A property manager for several low-income apartment complexes in Tennessee cashed some of the tenants' rent payments and kept the money for herself rather than turning it in to the company, and as a result she has been fired and is facing charges in a few different counties for the thefts.

However the rental company - while acknowledging the fact that one of their own employees stole the money - is telling tenants that they are responsible for paying back-rent to cover what was stolen:

The apartments have a locked deposit box than tenants deposit their rent checks or money orders into every month, and the only one with the key is the property manager whose job is to collect those money orders and take them to the company. My first very first apartment worked like this, although my property manager was live-in and I don't know if the one in this case was necessarily, since she was responsible apparently for a few properties in different towns. But an any rate, as a tenant, your responsibility is to put your money order in that slot by the cutoff date, and that's basically it. Once it's in the deposit box, it's in the hands of the apartment company.

But in a letter to tenants from the management company, it never acknowledges the former manager as such, only as "a person you trusted with your money", and repeatedly characterizes the money as having been stolen from them (the tenants). The letter even urges them to obtain copies of their spent money orders and file individual complaints of theft with the police, which would reinforce that the money was stolen from the tenants before the apartment company got it, rather than stolen by their own employee after she collected it in the course of her duties as an employee.

I don't know anything about the US law on theft or fraud, obviously, but how is there a difference between someone depositing a rent cheque in a locked deposit box to which only the property manager has access, and the property manager then stealing the cheque, and someone mailing their cheque to the the property company, and someone in the mailroom stealing it?

I'm also a bit puzzled about the various banks' responsibilities in all this. While I don't know how US money orders work, it seems to me that if I write a cheque payable to the Mammon Property Company, it's the responsibility of the various banks involved in the transaction to ensure the funds actually end up in the Mammon Company's account and nowhere else.

 

[Khamon]

IANAL in Ohio or Tennessee but imagine that the property manager was clearly acting as an agent for the company and a court will rule that the company was paid when the agent recovered the checks. Cashier’s checks are practically cash but will have been scanned during transactions.

Bank records will demonstrate that the manager deposited them into their personal account or, with footage, that the manager exchanged them for cash, if that is what happened.

 

[Dakota Tebaldi]

I'm also a bit puzzled about the various banks' responsibilities in all this. While I don't know how US money orders work, it seems to me that if I write a cheque payable to the Mammon Property Company, it's the responsibility of the various banks involved in the transaction to ensure the funds actually end up in the Mammon Company's account and nowhere else.

That one I'm curious about, too. In the example money order shown in the article, it's plain as day that she just wrote her name over top of the apartment company's name, and it's curious that the bank just let that slide, unless she cashed it at like a Walmart or some quick-cash place like that instead of the bank. Or maybe she was listed by name as an authorized agent of the company? I could see that possibility, if part of her job was to handle the rent money.

 

[Innula Zenovka]

In the UK, cheques are still used, but only very occassionally by most people. The last time I wrote a cheque must have been when I bought my previous flat, not the one I currently live in, in 2008.

I found this from a report in 2022:

Cheques are still used by 44% of current account holders, who make bill or gift payments with them. However, those who use cheques estimate they only write around 3 cheques a year. 3 in 5 now make fewer payments by cheque compared to 3 years ago. This trend is expected to continue, with half of consumers predicting cheques will make up an even smaller proportion of their payments over the next three years. This general decline is more pronounced among over 65s, who currently remain biggest cheque users but report significant reduction in the usage of cheques. More than 7 in 10 of over 65s now say they make fewer payments by cheque than three years ago compared with less than 2% who are making more. In the five years between 2014 and 2019 the proportion of over 65s ever using cheques fell 11 percentage points, from 72% to 61%. There has been a further decline of 10 percentage points in just the last two years from 61% to 51% of over 65s ever using cheques

https://newseventsinsights.wearepay.uk/media/tjmdivoa/cheques-usage-report-jan-2022.pdf

 

[WolfEyes]

That one I'm curious about, too. In the example money order shown in the article, it's plain as day that she just wrote her name over top of the apartment company's name, and it's curious that the bank just let that slide, unless she cashed it at like a Walmart or some quick-cash place like that instead of the bank. Or maybe she was listed by name as an authorized agent of the company? I could see that possibility, if part of her job was to handle the rent money.

Many years ago, someone stole some of my checks from my house and proceeded to write it for $100. In two different ink colors (black and blue) AND at least 2 different handwritings if not three. My bank was refusing to take responsibility for the teller cashing what was so obviously a forgery until I threated them with a court case. My money was back in my account the next day. This was in the 80s. Nothing has changed on that. The teller should have been fired. Didn't happen.

 

[Dakota Tebaldi]

In the UK, cheques are still used, but only very occassionally by most people. The last time I wrote a cheque must have been when I bought my previous flat, not the one I currently live in, in 2008.

Yeah money orders and cashier's checks have mostly replaced regular personal checks for non-digital payment here in the US. I'm guessing it's just because someone can WRITE anything they want on a personal check but there's no guarantee that money will actually be in their account to draw when you try to cash it, whereas money orders and cashier's checks have to be purchased at full price and you as the payee can more safely depend on Moneygram or the bank itself to be able to pay up when you cash the thing.

 

[Lexxi]

I bought my most recent car by check last year (2022). That's the last time I used a check. My bank, the dealer, and me got on a call to confirm that it was me, that was my account, and I had the money to cover the payment. Then I walked out with car and title. And with license plates already on it.

Prior to that . . . I can't remember how it was I paid for my rent in NY, though I believe it was electronically (as I do now in my current place). Hmm. I think I paid by check when I rented in Richmond back in the late 1990s, early 2000s? So possibly, before August 2022, the last time I used a normal check might have been back in ~May 2001. I used a certified check to make a security deposit back in 2011, but I'm not counting that as it wasn't a personal check.

 

[Innula Zenovka]

Yeah money orders and cashier's checks have mostly replaced regular personal checks for non-digital payment here in the US. I'm guessing it's just because someone can WRITE anything they want on a personal check but there's no guarantee that money will actually be in their account to draw when you try to cash it, whereas money orders and cashier's checks have to be purchased at full price and you as the payee can more safely depend on Moneygram or the bank itself to be able to pay up when you cash the thing.

Pretty much all cash or digital here, I think. Most shops won't accept cheques -- people use credit or debit cards, or cash. Regular payments like gas and electricity are generally made by direct debit -- when you set up the account, you give the creditor authority to take the full amount of the bill from your bank account a few days after you receive it. If you receive housing benefit, that's sent direct to your landlord.

 

[Noodles]

I went to a local pizza place recently that does not take debit/credit. I was kind of angry about it and probably will never go back there.

 

[Argent Stonecutter]

US credit card companies kind of ream small businesses. My laundry just dropped credit because of the overhead.

 

[Innula Zenovka]

US credit card companies kind of ream small businesses. My laundry just dropped credit because of the overhead.

CMSPI | The Go-To Payments Advisors for Global 500 Merchants

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In Europe, for example, consumer credit cards are regulated so fees are capped at 0.30% per transaction.² China and Australia have similar regulations resulting in average credit card interchange rates of 0.45%³ and 0.50%⁴ respectively. In Canada, while no regulation is in place regarding credit card fees, Visa, Mastercard have agreed to limit their fees on average to 1.40%⁵. In the U.S., there are no fee constraints, voluntary card network agreements, or network routing competition on credit cards, making U.S. credit card interchange fees some of the highest in the world.

 

[Veritable Quandry]

I write a check once a month for rent. Our slumlords are a family business. There is a family run smokehouse that only takes cash for the best bacon and sausage in the city. Other than that I only use digital payments or debit cards.

 

[WolfEyes]

I've never lived anywhere that rent isn't paid by check. Meaning every apartment I've lived in, the rent was paid by check because they didn't offer online payments. Even now we pay rent by check because they don't accept any other method. Not even cash. (Never put cash in a drop/deposit box unless it is AT a bank.)

 

[Innula Zenovka]

I've never lived anywhere that rent isn't paid by check. Meaning every apartment I've lived in, the rent was paid by check because they didn't offer online payments. Even now we pay rent by check because they don't accept any other method. Not even cash. (Never put cash in a drop/deposit box unless it is AT a bank.)

Do banks not have standing orders in the US? That is, you send your bank a written instruction (or fill in a form and return it to the branch) to pay, subject to funds being available, a certain sum to your landlord's account on a particular day each month until further notice?

 

[WolfEyes]

Do banks not have standing orders in the US? That is, you send your bank a written instruction (or fill in a form and return it to the branch) to pay, subject to funds being available, a certain sum to your landlord's account on a particular day each month until further notice?

The banks have it. The landlords don't.

 

[Innula Zenovka]

The banks have it. The landlords don't.

I see (I think). Back when I rented, my landlords used to give me a form, printed with their bank details, telling my bank to pay them the rent on a particular day each month, to sign and return to my bank. And if they didn't do that of their own accord, I'd type something up anyway and give it to my bank. You don't have that in the US?

 

[WolfEyes]

I see (I think). Back when I rented, my landlords used to give me a form, printed with their bank details, telling my bank to pay them the rent on a particular day each month, to sign and return to my bank. And if they didn't do that of their own accord, I'd type something up anyway and give it to my bank. You don't have that in the US?

Nope. Not anywhere I've lived anyway. It's the landlord's choice as to whether or not they want to pony up for making online payments or wire transfers possible. It's not cheap or free.

 

[Free]

Thankfully my landlord takes rent payments through Zelle. Which my bank is partnered with, making things easy, and no additional fees. (And no more checks!)

 

[Free]

A neonatal nurse in a British hospital has been found guilty of killing 7 babies

A neonatal nurse in a British hospital was found guilty Friday of murdering seven babies and trying to kill six others during a yearlong campaign of deception that saw her prey on the vulnerabilities of sick newborns and their anxious parents.

Following 22 days of deliberation, the jury at Manchester Crown Court convicted 33-year-old Lucy Letby of killing the babies, including two triplet boys, in the neonatal unit at the Countess of Chester Hospital in northwest England between June 2015 and June 2016. She will be sentenced on Monday.

I can barely read the rest.