Coup in the USA?

[Innula Zenovka]

The feds are seriously talking about letting most of these terrorists go.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/national-security/doj-capitol-rioters-charges-debate/2021/01/23/3b0cf112-5d97-11eb-8bcf-3877871c819d_story.html

If they keep moving in this direction, by the time Trump's impeachment gets to trial, our party leadership will be telling us to get over it, just like Ford told us to do when he let Nixon off the hook.

Evernote link because paywall

I can see the problem.

I mean, I don't think anyone's suggested dropping any of the more serious charges, but it seems they're considering how vigorously to pursue people who were milling around outside as part of the mob, but didn't do anything else, and were presumably guilty of riot or less serious public order offences, but nothing else, and then, rather higher up the scale, people who actually entered the Capitol, but committed no further offences and just hung around taking selfies, until directed to leave.

Certainly, though, they should prosecute not just the ringleaders and planners, but anyone who committed any offences other than simply being inside the buildings or simply being a member of the mob outside.

 

[detrius]

Remember when McConnell was talking about how the Senate calendar is such that impeachment can be considered by the senate either 1 hour after Biden is sworn in, or 1 day after?

Now they are pushing it back two fucking weeks!

I wouldn't mind so much if Trump was sitting in prison awaiting trial without bail, but this is stupid. We need to get Trump taken care of. He's down there in Mar a Lago fomenting god knows what, while congress 'focuses on Biden's cabinet'. Trump must be removed from play, and put in prison, so we never have to deal with him again. This doesn't even have to take that much time. This has to be the easiest votes to whip the Senate has ever seen. They could convict the guy in an hour if they wanted to.

Once he's taken care of, we still have the issue of removing senators who serve in violation of the 14th amendment. That would probably take more time. I can understand wanting to take care of Trump's impeachment before getting to them. Will it happen, though? Seeing how they are all slow walking the Trump trial, I doubt it. I think the senators who provided material support to the terrorists who attacked the capitol are going to keep serving for a long time to come, because congress doesn't want to do their jobs.

McConnell is not the majority leader any more. There's nobody left to blame for this but Pelosi, Schumer, and the rest of the democratic party leadership.

Think about it for just a moment.

First of all, Trump needs an attourney for the impeachment trial. That alone makes scheduling it like this reasonable.

Secondly, the Senate needs to confirm Biden's cabinet picks, so moving the trial to early February means the Republicans have no excuse for stalling that selection process.

And last but not least, this will give Biden's administration some time to assess the damage caused by Trump and make it public. They already revealed that Trump had no plan to distribute the vaccine - in the next few days we'll be hit with more bombshells exposing his criminal negligence even further, which will put pressure on the Republicans to distance themselves from Trump.

 

[Jolene Benoir]

Evernote link because paywall

I can see the problem.

I mean, I don't think anyone's suggested dropping any of the more serious charges, but it seems they're considering how vigorously to pursue people who were milling around outside as part of the mob, but didn't do anything else, and were presumably guilty of riot or less serious public order offences, but nothing else, and then, rather higher up the scale, people who actually entered the Capitol, but committed no further offences and just hung around taking selfies, until directed to leave.

Certainly, though, they should prosecute not just the ringleaders and planners, but anyone who committed any offences other than simply being inside the buildings or simply being a member of the mob outside.

I agree with you regarding the people that were milling about outside the capitol.

Anyone who went in, though? They should be vigorously prosecuted. They went in with every intention of stopping our democratic process. Just because some of them lack skills at doing so matters not to me. Break into someone's home with the intention of harming them and see if you get off because you didn't succeed?

Edit: I'd also rather not let them believe that if they do not like an outcome a storming of the capitol is appropriate and that they just need to plan better next time.

 

[Innula Zenovka]

I agree with you regarding the people that were milling about outside the capitol.

Anyone who went in, though? They should be vigorously prosecuted. They went in with every intention of stopping our democratic process. Just because some of them lack skills at doing so matters not to me. Break into someone's home with the intention of harming them and see if you get off because you didn't succeed?

Edit: I'd also rather not let them believe that if they do not like an outcome a storming of the capitol is appropriate and that they just need to plan better next time.

I'm not expressing an opinion either way, though I do understand the various points the prosecutors have to consider (including clogging the courts, which are almost certainly badly backlogged anyway, because of the pandemic).

 

[Innula Zenovka]

 

[bubblesort]

Evernote link because paywall

I can see the problem.

I mean, I don't think anyone's suggested dropping any of the more serious charges, but it seems they're considering how vigorously to pursue people who were milling around outside as part of the mob, but didn't do anything else, and were presumably guilty of riot or less serious public order offences, but nothing else, and then, rather higher up the scale, people who actually entered the Capitol, but committed no further offences and just hung around taking selfies, until directed to leave.

Certainly, though, they should prosecute not just the ringleaders and planners, but anyone who committed any offences other than simply being inside the buildings or simply being a member of the mob outside.

I think the subtext here is that there were a LOT of off duty cops in that mob of terrorists. The feds don't want to prosecute the cops, because they are corrupt.

This conversation would never happen if the terrorists were arabs. If they were arabs, they would be declared enemy combatants, and politicians would fall all over themselves to build a new wing in gitmo for them.

 

[danielravennest]

Keep in mind that a lot of these people live in rural areas and have access to fertilizer.

Don't give them ideas.

After the Oklahoma City bombing in 1995, ammonium nitrate became a controlled substance. You had to provide a reason for getting some. For fertilizer use they dilute it with other chemicals, principally ammonium sulfate, so it doesn't blow up your truck on the drive home from the farm store. Previously it was commonly used on farms to do things like blow up stumps.

 

[Innula Zenovka]

I think the subtext here is that there were a LOT of off duty cops in that mob of terrorists. The feds don't want to prosecute the cops, because they are corrupt.

This conversation would never happen if the terrorists were arabs. If they were arabs, they would be declared enemy combatants, and politicians would fall all over themselves to build a new wing in gitmo for them.

Possibly so, but the fact remains that, in a riot, then just about everyone there is guilty of some sort of public order offence because of their mere presence.

Within that group (8,000 or so identifiable images, I think it is), you've got a smaller, though still very large, group of identifiable individuals committing additional offences -- trespass, criminal damage, assault, and so on.

And you've also got several groups of individuals who appear either to get acting as ringleaders or to be moving in organised groups, apparently following some prearranged plan.

Since you've got only finite resources, you have to prioritise investigations and prosecutions.

 

[danielravennest]

"Seal them in. Turn on gas" may have a connotoation there, given what he is holding in his hands.

Everyone in the chamber had gas masks under their seats. I don't know if that is standard, or they had some advance notice about tear gas and other stuff.

 

[danielravennest]

That bothered me, too -- QAnon are fascinated with tunnels, I gather, as are many other cranks and conspiracists.

There are, in fact, a bunch of tunnels under the US Capitol. Some of them are for the Capitol subway, which connects the various congressional office buildings to the Capitol. But others are used for general delivery. It would be tacky to have food service trucks on the Capitol grounds delivering supplies to the cafeteria. So they unload stuff like that somewhere else and transport it through the tunnels. Finally, from World War II and the cold war era, they provide access to bunkers for safety, which most of the time are just used for storage.

 

[Innula Zenovka]

There are, in fact, a bunch of tunnels under the US Capitol. Some of them are for the Capitol subway, which connects the various congressional office buildings to the Capitol. But others are used for general delivery. It would be tacky to have food service trucks on the Capitol grounds delivering supplies to the cafeteria. So they unload stuff like that somewhere else and transport it through the tunnels. Finally, from World War II and the cold war era, they provide access to bunkers for safety, which most of the time are just used for storage.

There are bunches of tunnels, caves and catacombs under most places, and urban legends about what lurks in them. I come from a place that's honeycombed with them as part of a natural cave system that was used for workshops and dwellings well into the middle ages -- I used to explore them with friends as a teenager on a dare when they were uncovered by building works -- and London, of course, has a whole undercity and mythology to go with it.

Conspiracists are obsessed with them.

 

[Kamilah Hauptmann]

 

[Pamela]

I can see how this impeachment trial will lay out the whole story behind the Big Lie, from long before the election up to the coup attempt. It will be a breathtaking narrative.

 

[Katheryne Helendale]

McConnell is not the majority leader any more. There's nobody left to blame for this but Pelosi, Schumer, and the rest of the democratic party leadership.

Turtle McTurtleface may not be the Senate Majority Leader anymore, but he still controls literally half the Senate, and it requires at least two-thirds of the Senate to convict Trump. The trial is not going to be a cakewalk. Delaying it by two weeks is a small concession to make for the possibility of being able to actually convict him.

 

[detrius]

There are bunches of tunnels, caves and catacombs under most places, and urban legends about what lurks in them. I come from a place that's honeycombed with them as part of a natural cave system that was used for workshops and dwellings well into the middle ages -- I used to explore them with friends as a teenager on a dare when they were uncovered by building works -- and London, of course, has a whole undercity and mythology to go with it.

Conspiracists are obsessed with them.

SCP-1678 - SCP Foundation

The SCP Foundation's 'top-secret' archives, declassified for your enjoyment.

www.scpwiki.com

 

[Kamilah Hauptmann]

 

[Innula Zenovka]

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ETA


ETA 2

 

[Jolene Benoir]

The Justice System Is Going Too Easy on the White Insurrectionists

The Biden administration will be judged by how seriously it prosecutes the white supremacists who tried to overturn the election.

www.thenation.com

Absolutely.

Now, we’re seeing that same racist permissiveness from the Department of Justice and the FBI. Riley June Williams, the white woman accused of stealing Nancy Pelosi’s laptop during the insurrection, was released last week to the custody of her mother, pending trial. Eric Munchel, the “zip tie guy” who showed up to the Capitol ready to take Congress members hostage, was released on bond after his buddy paid his bail. But Emanuel Jackson, pretty much the only Black face anybody has seen breaching the Capitol, will be held in prison until trial.

For some reason, people at Justice are leaking to the press that they’re worried that bringing cases against these people would “overwhelm” the courts. That’s an absurd claim. Every criminal court in a major metropolitan area in this country is “overwhelmed” with cases, and that was true even before Covid-19, when judges could go to work safely. Every family court in this country is overwhelmed. Every immigration court in this country is overwhelmed. Black and brown people sit in jails all across the country waiting for their cases to be heard. But we’re supposed to believe “the system” is too busy to hold accountable 800 or so white insurrectionists? What, are we worried the FBI is going to run out of organic meals to feed these people too?

Refusing to prosecute the insurrectionists is straight-up racist. There is no wiggle room here.

 

[Aribeth Zelin]

The Justice System Is Going Too Easy on the White Insurrectionists

The Biden administration will be judged by how seriously it prosecutes the white supremacists who tried to overturn the election.

www.thenation.com

Absolutely.

The only thing that I'd like to point, is that Biden has not even been in office a full week; the people making these decisions are probably not his appointees.

Its still angering that its happening, but this is like giving credit or blame to a president for the economy during the first year of their term.

 

[Free]