Coup in the USA?

[Jolene Benoir]

"Treasonous pieces of shit"

"Fucking crackers"

We hear ya, dude.

That would have totally been me yesterday if I lived in D.C.

 

[Innula Zenovka]

I completely agree with you regarding the differences between the European and American approach about the use of deadly force; and that deescalation should be the standard procedure instead of calling for / justifying the use of firearms when not absolutely necessary. But I strongly disagree that those cops who were taking selfies and "maintained a cooperative and non-confrontational atmosphere" were deescalating the situation. They were clearly siding with the insurrectionists/criminals, encouraging and partly even enabling their actions. Deescalation is not fraternization.

Presumably there's going to be a full inquiry about the day's events at some point, with particular emphasis on the various policing decisions, and a lot will depend on instructions given to individual officers about how to respond to particular situations but, at least to my mind, once the protestors were inside the Capitol building there wasn't a great deal the police could do until reinforcements arrived, so they had to decide whether to withdraw completely from the areas temporarily occupied by the invaders or to remain there, observing and trying to defuse the situation.

I'm considerably more concerned about how they came to enter the building in the first place, and the delay in deploying reinforcements, than I am about the conduct of officers inside the building in what must have been a volatile and dangerous situation (and one in which I would not have wanted to find myself trying to restore order). But, as I say, there will have to be some sort of inquiry and heads will presumably roll, or not, as a result of that.

 

[Spirits Rising]

Mass Delusion in America

What I heard from insurrectionists on their march to the Capitol

www.theatlantic.com

Mental health is now a threat to our society.

As if it wasn't already?

 

[Free]

Hey, FBI! This guy is one who definitely broke some laws in the US Capitol building on Wednesday...



Maglink

 

[Jolene Benoir]

Someone is going to get a fine by the FCC, which is a lot more than the insurrectionists got as they were gently led out of the building and down the steps.

 

[Innula Zenovka]

 

[Innula Zenovka]

 

[Free]

 

[Bartholomew Gallacher]

Military defense is a totally different thing than police work. This here was bad police work.

 

[Innula Zenovka]

PM condemns Trump after years of fawning over US president by Tories

Boris Johnson leads charge to reverse stance on divisive leader in light of riot at Capitol building

www.theguardian.com

ETA

Priti Patel: Trump's remarks 'led to violence' in US Capitol

UK home secretary urged to deny departing president entry to UK once he leaves office

www.theguardian.com

 

[Aribeth Zelin]

Now, from what I've read, there are places in Europe where the practitioners of this Norse revival religion are for the most part innocuous. However, Asatru is extremely attractive to White Supremacists, who view it as a "true Aryan religion" and the proper white European alternative to Christianity, since Christianity worships a Jew. In the US specifically, Asatru followers are pretty much exclusively White Supremacists.

TL;DR - it's a Neo-Nazi cosplaying a Viking.

Yes, it is extremely attractive to Neo-Nazis, in no small part because of the Third Reich...

However, most Asatru in the US are not white supremacists and neo-nazis. A good portion might be, but I know too many who are not to agree with that, including one woman up in Chicago who is a woman with at least a fair bit of African ancestry too.

And for that one asshole, he's about as Asatru as the Pope, if he's carrying around signs about God and buying into the whole Biblical end of the world shit.

ETA: I should add, that real asatru might even hate these assholes more than I do - but I am more Frey and Freya and less Odin and that lot, and only in part.

 

[Innula Zenovka]

 

[Free]

Military defense is a totally different thing than police work. This here was bad police work.

The National Guard are not "police" but are occasionally called in to aide in such things. Which they had not been, until very late yesterday.

 

[Rose Karuna]

Sure, and I've seen suggestions that the cops at the barriers actually let them through, which clearly needs investigating.

However, once they were through the barriers and inside the building, there doesn't seem to have been a great deal the officers inside the Capitol could have done until reinforcements arrived other than to try to keep things as peaceful as possible.

What are those brownshirts going to be charged with? Sedition? Interfering with an election? Breaking and entering?

I suppose each and every single one of them might end up facing a dozen really serious charges.

Good.

How about charging each of them with killing 4 people during the commission of a felony. Also, let's add, conspiracy, intentionally causing serious bodily injury, destruction of property and fucking terrorism. Oh, and then let's charge them with this: Title 18, US code Chapter 115

Whoever incites, sets on foot, assists, or engages in any rebellion or insurrection against the authority of the United States or the laws thereof, or gives aid or comfort thereto, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than ten years, or both; and shall be incapable of holding any office under the United States.
(June 25, 1948, ch. 645, 62 Stat. 808; Pub. L. 103–322, title XXXIII, § 330016(1)(L), Sept. 13, 1994, 108 Stat. 2147.)

and this:

If two or more persons in any State or Territory, or in any place subject to the jurisdiction of the United States, conspire to overthrow, put down, or to destroy by force the Government of the United States, or to levy war against them, or to oppose by force the authority thereof, or by force to prevent, hinder, or delay the execution of any law of the United States, or by force to seize, take, or possess any property of the United States contrary to the authority thereof, they shall each be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than twenty years, or both.
(June 25, 1948, ch. 645, 62 Stat. 808; July 24, 1956, ch. 678, § 1, 70 Stat. 623; Pub. L. 103–322, title XXXIII, § 330016(1)(N), Sept. 13, 1994, 108 Stat. 2148.)

And Trump, this:

18 U.S. Code § 2385 - Advocating overthrow of Government

• U.S. Code
• Notes

Whoever knowingly or willfully advocates, abets, advises, or teaches the duty, necessity, desirability, or propriety of overthrowing or destroying the government of the United States or the government of any State, Territory, District or Possession thereof, or the government of any political subdivision therein, by force or violence, or by the assassination of any officer of any such government; or

Whoever, with intent to cause the overthrow or destruction of any such government, prints, publishes, edits, issues, circulates, sells, distributes, or publicly displays any written or printed matter advocating, advising, or teaching the duty, necessity, desirability, or propriety of overthrowing or destroying any government in the United States by force or violence, or attempts to do so; or

Whoever organizes or helps or attempts to organize any society, group, or assembly of persons who teach, advocate, or encourage the overthrow or destruction of any such government by force or violence; or becomes or is a member of, or affiliates with, any such society, group, or assembly of persons, knowing the purposes thereof—
Shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than twenty years, or both, and shall be ineligible for employment by the United States or any department or agency thereof, for the five years next following his conviction.

If two or more persons conspire to commit any offense named in this section, each shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than twenty years, or both, and shall be ineligible for employment by the United States or any department or agency thereof, for the five years next following his conviction.

As used in this section, the terms “organizes” and “organize”, with respect to any society, group, or assembly of persons, include the recruiting of new members, the forming of new units, and the regrouping or expansion of existing clubs, classes, and other units of such society, group, or assembly of persons.
(June 25, 1948, ch. 645, 62 Stat. 808; July 24, 1956, ch. 678, § 2, 70 Stat. 623; Pub. L. 87–486, June 19, 1962, 76 Stat. 103; Pub. L. 103–322, title XXXIII, § 330016(1)(N), Sept. 13, 1994, 108 Stat. 2148.)

Also, the security at the capital was abysmal. Security knew (and if they didn't they're completely incompetent) that Trump was holding a rally nearby. Security for the Capitol should have been in complete force and they should have had the Marine Security Guards (MSG) deployed as well as having the National Guard on standby.

The guards who opened the gate and took selfies with the terrorists, they should not only be fired by should also be considered for prosecution under Title 18 for treason. This is not a joke, these people aren't clowns, they are terrorists.

 

[Jolene Benoir]

Fact checking the Republican lawmakers who stood up to challenge the PA vote, despite what happened earlier in the day, proving that they still intend to fan flames. I watched this live and it was infuriating. There were some good rebuttals by Dems, which are not in this list, one of which led to Republicans having a temper tantrum.

Fact-Checking the Congressional Debate on Ratifying the Election Results (Published 2021)

www.nytimes.com

Brawl Nearly Erupts on House Floor After Pa. Democrat Accuses GOP of Lying

A small group of House lawmakers came close to physically fighting early Thursday morning as the congressional count of electoral votes stretched into the wee hours and a Pennsylvania Democrat charged that Republicans had been telling “lies” about his state’s votes.

www.nbcphiladelphia.com

 

[Free]

Fact-Checking the Congressional Debate on Ratifying the Election Results (Published 2021)

www.nytimes.com

Resource for those hitting NYT paywall:

Fact check of objections Republican lawmakers may raise during Electoral College count

A dozen senators say they'll object to the 2020 presidential election's state-certified results during the congressional count of the Electoral College votes.

www.cbsnews.com

 

[Jolene Benoir]

I wonder how Pence feels about Trump given that he was in the building and there were at least some of the insurrectionists who had a bit more than posing in chairs as their goal, what with going in dressed in paramilitary gear and holding zip ties.

There is some evidence that they were chatting online about doing something similar to what was planned in Michigan.

 

[Innula Zenovka]

 

[Jolene Benoir]

Needs more Stacy Abrams and those democrats who have always stood for the rule of law. Anyone who willingly served under Trump or at his behest now turning is more than a little late. People like McConnell or any other Republican Senator had their opportunity to remove this man.

It wasn't from a lack of awareness at the damage Trump was capable of, it was because they were getting what they wanted.

 

[Innula Zenovka]