2020 Democratic Primary

[Veritable Quandry]

Also, black people didn't favor Biden in South Carolina.

Old black people, I've noticed, are often black. Sanders took 14% of the African-American vote in SC. Biden took 64%. That's a 50 point spread of those who voted.

 

[Anya Ristow]

But the ACA was a huge victory for working people in general, although not everyone has been able to benefit directly.

One of the articles posted addressed my question, Why Biden? The answer is, apparently, ACA and the 2013 tax increase. Even if you accept that Biden gets credit, these are both "lifts all boats" things, aren't they? Not specifically targeted to black voters? Beebo regularly derides Sanders for being a "lift all boats" guy, so I was kinda hoping there was something in specific that Biden has done for black voters.

You might credit him for supporting both the Fair Sentencing Act and the Second Chance Act, but that doesn't exactly differentiate him from Sanders, who co-sponsored both.

 

[Salome]

I know it’s useless to bother, but the idea that Obama did nothing for working people or black America beyond optics and symbolism is so deeply misguided and full of shit. Putting aside that he inherited a terrible recession and had to bail out our economic and manufacturing industries to keep us from absolute destruction, he then used all his political capital to advance the biggest step toward universal healthcare this country has ever made. He, Pelosi, and others did it against monumental opposition during a rising tide of racism that called itself “the Tea Party” which completely and permanently radicalized the GOP and rendered moderate conservatives extinct. They did it against a right-wing propaganda machine that we take for granted now, but which had had never existed at that level before. And when the dust settled, much of the left abandoned them, so there was little to no political capital left to fix and fine tune the legislation or fight the red states that sabotaged it. They helped the GOP smother the ACA in its cradle and now they want to blame Obama and Dems for it not reaching its full potential

We could also talk about the gains the LGBT movement made under Obama, but conveniently we can’t talk about “identity politics.”

Some of Obama’s most meaningful contributions were things that aren’t sexy, but made huge differences for black Americans and all other Americans at or near the poverty line. He supported extending SafeLink to cell phones in more states and announced ConnectHome so that low income people would not be kept out of digital spaces or lose job and educational opportunities to gatekeeping. (Side note: when Kamala Harris was asked today what issues black women raised with her most out on the campaign, affordable broadband for their kids was a big issue for them). He had multiple plans to bolster and help with more affordable education. He repeatedly urged Congress for an increased $12 federal minimum wage. He increased protections against predatory practices that targeted lower income families, increased business opportunity protections. He had to grant paid leave for federal contractors by federal order because the GOP weren’t going to allow that. He worked toward extended Earned Income and Child tax credits... The list goes on and there’s plenty of it. Yes, much of it was sabotaged and denied expansion because Republicans fucking exist.

Obama was not a perfect President. No one is or ever will be. There are fair and legitimate criticisms, But this notion that he‘s just a rich dude that didn’t care, helped no one, and accomplished nothing is complete and utter horseshit. The racist need to tear him down and erase him started with the Tea Party being validated as a legitimate movement and has now become a mantra of a left that is detached from reality because they willfully pretend the GOP isn’t our biggest problem and somehow get amnesia whenever we have to talk about the challenges our Dem leaders face every time we have to clean up after Republicans loot the economy and the left fucks off.

Right now we’re finally fighting to restore voting rights and address election concerns that have disenfranchised scores of Americans criminalized by the racist War on Drugs and poverty. Only one party is trying. And we’ve been doing it while Sanders was loudly advocating for racist, ablest caucuses over primaries because he didn’t care who got robbed of a voice when it benefitted him. But, sure, the DNC are rigging elections and suppressing votes.

Jesus fucking wept.

 

[Ranma Tardis]

Things do not look good for my candidate Bernie Sanders. While I will vote true BLUE, I just do not have the passion to do much for Biden besides my vote.

 

[Salome]

Things do not look good for my candidate Bernie Sanders. While I will vote true BLUE, I just do not have the passion to do much for Biden besides my vote.

A lot of us feel this way. Team Biden is going to have to do a lot to put out the a fine-tuned platform and engender trust for those who are good faith actors. That said, even if you never reach a point of enthusiasm, I’m relieved you still recognize the importance of things like the Supreme Court enough to consider the vote a given and work from there.

 

[Aribeth Zelin]

Things do not look good for my candidate Bernie Sanders. While I will vote true BLUE, I just do not have the passion to do much for Biden besides my vote.

I get it - right now, I'm still so ticked off at the Treatment Warren got and will most likely continue to get from Bernie supporters 'She isn't a real progressive is she doesn't drop for Bernie's sake', and that was from someone I -know-. Like wtf, maybe Bernie isn't a real progressive because he decided, rather than support Warren, only 'he' could beat twitler. And its worse for me because apparently the housemate is convinced that Bernie's being cheated again, even though the numbers do not suggest that at all, not like in '16.

 

[Innula Zenovka]

Thread:


AOC gets it. But she's a socialist, so she understands why political parties are important and how they work

 

[Cristalle]

It's not about this one guy. It's about the black vote, that Sanders isn't getting. Of all the commentaries from Biden-supporting African-Americans I've read I don't think I've heard Clyburn's name more than once or twice.



Don't you see that either way of framing it robs them of their agency? Misinformed is misinformed. You can use language that implies the being misinformed isn't their fault - like describing them as having been "led astray" - but either way you're devaluing the majority black vote as flawed. The voters are intelligent individuals who are more than capable of informing themselves about the issues and reaching a valid position.



That's your prerogative. I'm just saying, the reality remains - Bernie does not have the African-American vote, and he's not going to get it as long as he neglects to explore and appeal to their priorities. Lecturing them about what their priorities should be instead of trying to find out what they are, obviously - and very very predictably - has not worked. Denigrating the first black president as an ideological opponent whose legacy needs to be overcome rather than celebrated was an almost comical own-goal and certainly seems to have actively turned this demographic against Sanders. Doubling down on those mistakes with rationalizations isn't going to fix it.

Maybe you missed this, Dakota: Rep. Jim Clyburn’s endorsement gave Biden some serious momentum in South Carolina

According to exit polls conducted by Edison Research, 61 percent of Democratic voters said Clyburn’s endorsement was an important factor in their decision. And 27 percent of voters said the endorsement was “the most important factor” in their candidate choice.

The impact of Clyburn’s coveted endorsement on voter thinking underscores how even in an era in which party elites have declining influence over primaries, a respected politician can still have sway over voters.

61% found his endorsement to be important. 27% found it to be the most important factor. These are not trivial numbers. I'm not robbing anyone of their agency. If they chose to put their trust in Clyburn's endorsement, that was their choice. I don't agree, but I can understand why. He's a respected leader with civil rights cred. Not their fault he did them dirty.

Can we not tiptoe around the fact that most people don't pay attention to politics to the level that we do? A lot of the American electorate IS low information and that's descriptive, not pejorative. I've found a stunning amount of ignorance (descriptive, not pejorative) in canvassing. I don't doubt that there are a lot of people who are fairly attentive to politics but couldn't tell you some of the things I've been able to cite about Biden's record. For those that know and still voted that way, I can't reconcile the vote, and I accept that I never will. And I am not obligated to like it. For the others who aren't as involved, I put more responsibility on the leaders for leading astray.

I'm not arguing with reality. I've merely stated my point of view. That does not constitute me lecturing anyone. That constitutes me expressing my displeasure with their choice, which is my right and your right if you felt such. We're not obligated to praise people for choices we think are wrong-headed. And I'm not denigrating the first president for the sake of it. I'm having a clear-eyed look at his presidency and what he did with it, and looking at data to help with that assessment. That it doesn't come out sparkling and rosy is because of the data.

Some of what I feel is mitigated by the fact that he lost the House and then the Senate, but as I've said before: the party lost 1000 seats at the state and local level in the last decade and NONE of the leadership has been held to account for that. The state level losses are worse because of what it did to the Census, redistricting, and setting up Republican gerrymandering.

I will agree that Bernie's got problems and as I've stated elsewhere, he needs a specific black agenda. But honestly? I don't think that the media would give him that credence. He's had some really great plans, as good or better than Warren's, and yet she gets all the liberal love. With Bernie, it's a game of Calvinball - he keeps trying to play by the rules but to win, the rules are ever changing.

 

[Shiloh Lyric]

I'm waiting for anyone at all to tell me...why Joe Biden?



Why?



Then what is it? Trust him...for what? To do...what?

Because he can beat Trump in Michigan and in PA. How do I know? AGAIN, I knocked on doors in a moderate district in PA, like many other moderate/Conservative districts in PA, for a progressive candidate, who was openly endorsed by Bernie Sanders. In fact, in 2018, I was in Lancaster City when Bernie Sanders appeared and spoke at a rally for that progressive candidate. Guess how much that helped? She lost. By pretty much the same margin as the last Democrat who tried to run for Congress in this district, and THAT one wasn't even very progressive. But Joe Biden? They REALLY like him. But you know what I heard from every moderate, whether Democratic or Republican, I spoke with? They don't like "socialism". Progressives just want "free stuff". We want "everything handed" to us. Over, and over, and over again. Since I both live and work in this district, and have for most of my life, I can tell you that attitude hasn't changed much in the last 2 years. You're fooling yourself if you think Bernie is going to win those moderates.

And, despite Bubblesort's avid support of Bernie Sanders, if he's ever actually gone out and canvassed for a Progressive candidate in his district, he will know that's what happens in this state. If he's in the district I'm pretty sure he's in, they keep electing Scott Perry, even after redistricting. Perry is a big Trump defender. He's no better than MY rep, Lloyd Smucker. And Smucker is pretty bad. Around these parts, many districts aren't any happier about what they call "free stuff" than mine is.

Sure, PA has progressives. But PA is NOT progressive. Not yet. Even our Democratic Governor, who I far prefer over the last one with the high gas tax legislation, isn't very progressive compared to some other Democratic Governors.

 

[Salome]

AOC gets it. But she's a socialist, so she understands why political parties are important and how they work

At some point you have to wonder how much of “not getting it“ is just deliberate bad faith. Take the conversation that goes on here. SLU is far more liberal than the country at large. Most of us are progressive. Most of us didn’t start out wanting Biden. Several of us voted for Bernie in 2016. But he’s lost a significant number of us and of those still voting for him, there are, at least a few, only choosing to do so as a least bad option. Dude has the Intercept, Jacobin, Quilette, TYT, and half on MSNBC up his ass as well as advocates on CNN, etc. But he still role-plays like “the media” is against him. He has zero civil rights receipts beyond a couple cosplay activism photo from decades ago. He’s getting his ass handed to him by rank and file Dems. For the SECOND time in a row. This brings zero reflection. It’s all “corporate Dems” and other conspiracies. Completely ignoring how this position means Dems are both diabolical geniuses and incompetent boobs. And, ya know, people like us are uninformed and unenlightened posers that just can’t handle the truth that malcontent tragedy grifters peddle for patreon donations.

They‘re not getting it because Bernie has become a cult of personality unto himself instead of fostering a progressive movement bigger than himself. Why? Because narcissists gonna narcissist.

 

[Salome]

But Joe Biden? They REALLY like him.

When I was making calls, I ran into this a lot, too. And when I asked what they liked in him as a candidate one of the things that came up over and over was his empathy. Because of his personal tragedy they felt he understood “what really mattered.” This is why I think Trump going after Biden’s family will backfire big time (I didn’t feel that way until I started talking to people).

But you know what I heard from every moderate, whether Democratic or Republican, I spoke with? They don't like "socialism". Progressives just want "free stuff". We want "everything handed" to us. Over, and over, and over again. Since I both live and work in this district, and have for most of my life, I can tell you that attitude hasn't changed much in the last 2 years. You're fooling yourself if you think Bernie is going to win those moderates.

I wonder if this is regional. I rarely asked about Sanders, but when people would volunteer their feelings, the main complaints were (1) his lack of faith, and (2) all he does is yell and blame.

Sure, PA has progressives. But PA is NOT progressive.

I see you a PA and raise you a Florida. lol

 

[Shiloh Lyric]

I wonder if this is regional. I rarely asked about Sanders, but when people would volunteer their feelings, the main complaints were (1) his lack of faith, and (2) all he does is yell and blame.

I'm not sure. When I canvassed it was specifically to campaign for Jess King, a local progressive Mennonite married to a pastor of a Mennonite Church. Which, around here in Bible Belt County, you would think would matter. But, as soon as the word "progressive" was mentioned, it was all "Socialism Sucks!". We never actually talked about Bernie, per se, but Jess was a strong supporter of his progressive policies.

Smucker, our current Rep, was raised Amish, is an ultra-conservative Trumpster who received more money from the NRA in 2016 than any other Congressional Candidate, to the tune of $221,000. And was re-elected in 2018 with no real problem.

There are several Republican lawmakers who have taken an exorbitant amount of money from the NRA that now face credible, aggressive, progressive Democratic candidates. Unfortunately, many of those candidates have yet to make clear their positions on gun control. In some cases, it's a matter of coming from rural districts, where it can be a tricky issue, but nonetheless, we can't exactly throw our support behind them quite yet; we want vocal Democrats taking on the gun lobby. But several candidates stand out as bold leaders on the matter.

An important one to highlight is Jess King, who is running against Rep. Lloyd Smucker (PA-16), one of the biggest NRA lapdogs in Congress. In fact, Smucker received more money from the NRA than any other congressional candidate in 2016. The Pennsylvania map is about to be redrawn, but King will still be running for office. And you have to admire how vocal she's been about gun control; unlike most candidates in her position, she has a detailed statement on her site about the need for new gun laws.

GOP Rep. Lloyd Smucker got the most NRA money of anyone. This progressive is gonna defeat him!

ETA: Smucker no longer represents PA-16. Since the maps were redrawn, we're now PA-11.

 

[Salome]

I'm not sure. When I canvassed it was specifically to campaign for Jess King, a local progressive Mennonite married to a pastor of a Mennonite Church. Which, around here in Bible Belt County, you would think would matter. But, as soon as the word "progressive" was mentioned, it was all "Socialism Sucks!". We never actually talked about Bernie, per se, but Jess was a strong supporter of his progressive policies.

Smucker, our current Rep, was raised Amish, is an ultra-conservative Trumpster

Man, I hope someone bought you a beer. I’d rather canvass alligators.

 

[Beebo Brink]

This entire conversation will change in about 10-15 days, when COVID-19 starts beating the shit out of our healthcare system.

 

[Shiloh Lyric]

Man, I hope someone bought you a beer. I’d rather canvass alligators.

Luckily, a lot of my canvassing was done with a dude and his 11 year old daughter. She was a pretty smart little cookie. When I expressed some discomfort when we approached our first house with registered Republicans, she said "People don't yell at you when you have a kid along". She was right. The conversations were all very civil, but we didn't change many, if any, minds, I know. Even when we stressed what we felt we all had in common.

And no beers to be had.

 

[Salome]

I just saw a tweet that said “Welcome to Team Joe! None of us started here!”

I know Biden does have true supporters but I laughed and felt that in my bones lol.

 

[Monica Dream]

Things do not look good for my candidate Bernie Sanders. While I will vote true BLUE, I just do not have the passion to do much for Biden besides my vote.

Hopefully this will make you feel better:

Movements aren't necessarily electoral in nature. People get better at learning to vote, voting their values over time. But a lot of generations do get defined politically for quite sometime. Our generation seems to have a streak of progressivism that doesn't seem to be going away soon. Exit poll after exit poll has shown that the vast majority of Democratic voters believe in Medicare for all, they believe in healthcare is a right, they believe in decisive action on climate change.

Bernie's important; but whatever happens with him isn't the end of the road.

"Not me, us"

 

[Innula Zenovka]

To overcome Biden’s delegate lead, The Post’s Philip Bump calculates, Sanders would need to beat Biden by an average of 12 percentage points in remaining contests. But Sanders trails Biden nationally by nearly 20 percentage points and by 40 points in Florida, which votes next week.

Sanders could have declared victory Wednesday and dropped out of the race. He has succeeded in pushing the Democratic Party to the left, and his differences with Biden are less about ends than means. As Rep. Ro Khanna (D-Calif.), a Sanders supporter, said this week: “Bernie Sanders won the idea primary.”
Yet Sanders, instead, extends the fight. Only ugliness this way lies.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2020/03/11/bernie-sanders-spoiler-campaign-begins/

The Bernie Sanders spoiler campaign begins - The Washington Post

Opinions Add to list The Bernie Sanders spoiler campaign begins Sen. Bernie Sanders (I-Vt.) at a news conference in Burlington, Vt., on Wednesday. (Salwan Georges/The Washington Post) By Dana Milbank ...

www.evernote.com

 

[Katheryne Helendale]

My best theory so far is that old people are just slow. As you get old, your mind starts to slip, and you start thinking things like medical bankruptcies aren't a problem, and we should make all college students into indentured servants to bankers for eternity, and private prisons are awesome, and civil rights are bad.

You know what? I'm done with you. From the deepest part of my heart, go fuck yourself with a cactus.

 

[Clara D.]

U HAZ TA BE OLD AND STUPID TO NOT LURVE THE TRUMP!

How nice for you?

Your odd little fetish for abusive fat old men is getting tedious.

Not only are some kinks best kept private, heaping abuse on people that won't indulge you in them isn't the best way to find people with a mutual interest. You may want to find an Alex Jones Fan Forum to find yourself some like-minded people. No one here at VVO is old, fat, and rich enough to indulge whatever weird daddy issues you have.