2020 Democratic Primary

Cristiano

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Pamela

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This is what keeps me awake at night.
 

Cristiano

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Cristalle

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Eunoli

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So, we can't have an honest discussion about anything, basically.
There is no discussion to be had. What Sanders said is going to lose him Florida - that's the way the Latino vote goes down there. It has nothing to do with if Castro had a good literary program or not. It has to do with the millions who lived through and fled that horror not being willing to support anyone who has a single good word to say about him.
 

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There is no discussion to be had. What Sanders said is going to lose him Florida - that's the way the Latino vote goes down there. It has nothing to do with if Castro had a good literary program or not. It has to do with the millions who lived through and fled that horror not being willing to support anyone who has a single good word to say about him.
It may, it may not. Florida is already heavily conservative so it may not be the thing that makes a difference for this particular state. For the rest of us not willing to disengage our brains at the word 'socialism', it won't make a difference.
 

NyteWytch

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It may, it may not. Florida is already heavily conservative so it may not be the thing that makes a difference for this particular state. For the rest of us not willing to disengage our brains at the word 'socialism', it won't make a difference.
He said they were grateful for healthcare not scared for the safety of themselves or loved ones. That is disrespectful at best disingenuous at worst....has nothing to do with disengaging a brain :eyeroll:
 

Cristalle

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He said they were grateful for healthcare not scared for the safety of themselves or loved ones. That is disrespectful at best disingenuous at worst....has nothing to do with disengaging a brain :eyeroll:
I"m looking for exact quotes from him but from that article, I don't see what he said about that.

It's pretty well documented that Cuba has had a pretty advanced medical system despite its few resources. There is no room for nuance, apparently, and thus no room for an honest conversation about Cuba.
 

Cristiano

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So, we can't have an honest discussion about anything, basically.
You could say the trains and buses ran exceptionally well under Hitler, it's still not going to get you brownie points for pointing out the good things a murderous dictator did. It definitely won't play well in Palm Beach or Tel Aviv.

Red ink: The high human cost of the Cuban revolution

Sanders was fucking stupid to comment on this. Castro is an incredibly personal and emotional topic for millions of Cuban Americans, and his "but his literacy program!" relativism is just dumb and insulting. Waah, it's unfair that people don't look kindly upon being jailed, executed, and millions having to flee their homeland.
 

Beebo Brink

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Compared to the 2016 primary, one could logically expect that Sanders would do worse this time around. He's that much older, he's suffered a heart attack, he's facing competition not from a single "centrist" Dems like Hillary, but from a lineup of other candidates on a continuum of progressive values.

The fact that -- against all odds -- he's doing so well is meaningful. In the same way that Trump won, despite being so far outside the party norm. All this hair-pulling and gnashing of teeth by pundits and Dem leadership is missing the message. Sanders would not be winning if the Dem party was speaking to the concerns of rank-and-file people. The GOP is a train wreck, but the Dems are cracking pretty ominously, too.

Biden Bros loudly proclaim that only Biden can beat Trump, but if that were true (which I've never believed), then Biden would be handily winning the primary, too. And I have to laugh at all the Wall St. types who were so adamantly opposed to Warren -- happy now? Do you feel safer now that Sanders may be your next president?

On the DU forums, over and over again I have been urged to vote for Biden so that the Dem party could unite. I was supposed to get over not getting my candidate and vote for the larger picture. Well, back at ya. I may not get Warren, but I'll vote for Sanders. And I expect all Dems to do exactly the same or they're just as full of hypocritical partisanship as the Trump supporters, just a different flavor.
 

Eunoli

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On the DU forums, over and over again I have been urged to vote for Biden so that the Dem party could unite. I was supposed to get over not getting my candidate and vote for the larger picture. Well, back at ya. I may not get Warren, but I'll vote for Sanders. And I expect all Dems to do exactly the same or they're just as full of hypocritical partisanship as the Trump supporters, just a different flavor.
I don't think anyone here is saying that they won't vote for Sanders. I think the point being made is that the already hard to win general just became a lot harder.
 

Beebo Brink

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I don't think anyone here is saying that they won't vote for Sanders.
I very specifically named the Democratic Underground forums rather than VVO. The anti-Sanders sentiment runs high in that place and more than one person is grumbling about sitting out the election if Sanders is nominated. Which makes all the scathing criticism of Bernie Bros for sitting out the 2016 election just so much partisan hot air and bluster.

I think the point being made is that the already hard to win general just became a lot harder.
Harder than it would be with.... ? Biden? Warren? Buttigieg? Klobuchar?

Sanders is the one getting the votes, by a wide margin. Why would you assume that he'd do worse in the general than they would? My favorite is Warren, but she's not getting the votes. If she can't even persuade Democrats to back her, why would she appeal to masses of other voters? And personally, I've always thought Biden would be a lost cause against Trump.

If Sanders wins the Dem primary, then he is -- by definition -- the best candidate for the job.
 

Eunoli

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Harder than it would be with.... ? Biden? Warren? Buttigieg? Klobuchar?
There's only two examples of anyone winning the presidency without Florida - 1960 and 1992. So yes, I think Sanders shooting himself in the foot in Florida makes it much harder to win a General election that is already going to be much harder than it should be thanks to foreign interference, suppression and Fox news.
 
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