The Russia-Ukraine War has begun

[Sid]

If I had a military operation and we had developed a system to detect submarines positions, I would not inform the public about that.
Neither if I had supersonic missiles.
Bragging doesn't win wars.

 

[Soen Eber]

You, as I wrote in post 1622.

The sub had the advantage of an Air Independent Propulsion system, which essentially used and stored liquid oxygen, recharging as necessary.

The U.S. Navy "rented" that Gotling class sub and crew for two years, trying to figure out how to fix things.

I don't recall if they ever did.

 

[Soen Eber]

If I had a military operation and we had developed a system to detect submarines positions, I would not inform the public about that.
Neither if I had supersonic missiles.
Bragging doesn't win wars.

Keeping your cards close to your vest is a strategy I use frequently, and have collected thousands of dollars of unemployment compensation when temporary agencies have tried to deny it. I've the advantage of being much smarter than I look and doing the research.

 

[Innula Zenovka]

 

[Innula Zenovka]

 

[Bartholomew Gallacher]

The sub had the advantage of an Air Independent Propulsion system, which essentially used and stored liquid oxygen, recharging as necessary.

The U.S. Navy "rented" that Gotling class sub and crew for two years, trying to figure out how to fix things.

I don't recall if they ever did.

Air independent propulsion systems are nothing new. The advantage was probably more that the US Navy hasn't studied this approach much before, so they had not really good knowledge about how to track such a submarine.

Not that it helps if the technology is old and has been around for a while, but nobody pays enough attention. In 2015 a French Rubis class submarine (class was launched in 1979, last submarine commissioned in 1990), the Saphir (launched 1984) sank the USS Theodore Roosevelt in a wargame. At that date that submarine was 31 years in service.

This French Submarine 'Sank' A U.S. Navy Aircraft Carrier in 2015

The French Rubis-class is France’s first-generation nuclear attack submarine class. Though old, they’re still capable. The first of the class, the Rubis, originally launched in 1979. Though the class is nuclear-powered, they are smaller than typical attack submarines in the American or British...

www.19fortyfive.com

 

[Argent Stonecutter]

Wot, you mean like sonar? Or asdic for the limeys.

Look, we've had that since WWII, which is when the sub my cousin was on was made. But they just sat on the bottom of a strait and waited for the carrier to float over. The other classic technique is to shadow the noisiest ship in the convoy until they get close enough to the duck.

And I think you mean "hypersonic".

 

[Innula Zenovka]

Partisans who helped to halt Russia’s advance on Kyiv paid with their lives

There are many reasons that Russia’s 40-mile column of tanks failed to encircle Kyiv. Anatoliy Kybukevych’s band of partisans is one of them, but they paid a te

www.thetimes.co.uk

Evernote link

 

[Chin Rey]

Air independent propulsion systems are nothing new. The advantage was probably more that the US Navy hasn't studied this approach much before, so they had not really good knowledge about how to track such a submarine.

The Swedish submarines also use Stirling engines which are much quiter than ordinary combustion engines.

 

[Bartholomew Gallacher]

Want to get a candle? Why not one of these new, nifty Zelenskiy prayer candles?

Costs range from around 10-25 US$.

 

[Innula Zenovka]

Thread

 

[Innula Zenovka]

 

[Bartholomew Gallacher]

And it happened! The wannabee sultan of Turkey, Erdogan, blocks Finland and Sweden joining the NATO.

Turkey blocks early vote on Sweden and Finland joining Nato

Move comes hours after the Nordic nations officially launched their bids to join the alliance

www.theguardian.com

 

[Soen Eber]

They have a laundry list of bargaining chips to barter for, ranging from the PKK (do I have that right?) to weapon sales to some general (and probably legitimate) grievences over not being dealt with fairly. I hope the negotiations don't go Brexit-style. No matter what, NATO does need Turkey, if only to bottle up the Black Sea fleet, and Putin is trying hard to win them over.

Erdogan is also working hard to play a spoiler position, trying to maximize concessions from both sides. He's also got grievances, real and / or perceived. Turkey also has some serious, and profitable, trade and general economic potential they want to exploit or they wouldn't be cutting that new canal to (I believe) the Black sea.

 

[Katheryne Helendale]

And it happened! The wannabee sultan of Turkey, Erdogan, blocks Finland and Sweden joining the NATO.

Turkey blocks early vote on Sweden and Finland joining Nato

Move comes hours after the Nordic nations officially launched their bids to join the alliance

www.theguardian.com

Can one member country really shut down an admission request like that?

 

[Kamilah Hauptmann]

Can one member country really shut down an admission request like that?

Wait until you see what goes on in the EU.

 

[Veritable Quandry]

Can one member country really shut down an admission request like that?

The heart of NATO is a mutual defense pact. If one nation is attacked, all members respond. So each member state has to pass enabling legislation for new members.

 

[Bartholomew Gallacher]

Can one member country really shut down an admission request like that?

Yes.

 

[Sid]

It is because it is a union of sovereign countries.
So each country has it's own say and veto because nobody wants to be shot in the foot by decisions made by other countries.
That makes long term decision making hard to achive and the fact that some members have an at least questionable leadership makes it even harder.
Turkey is one of them.

IMHO a lot what Erdohan says now is mostly for the home market, because there are elections next year in Turkey and his popularity is at a low.

 

[Bartholomew Gallacher]

Erdogan always says no first because he wants to get bribed.