SCOTUS set to overturn Roe and Casey

[Aribeth Zelin]

This was a pretty active area of jurisprudence early on in the the nation's history, what with each state wanting to tax, monopolize, ban, profit from, restrict trade and movement and so forth, so most of this is long-settled law.

Except that, if someone is pulling from the English laws of the 14-1600s, like Alito did, then that won't matter.

I mean, our country isn't even 250 years old, so I'd argue that 50 years is a significant portion of our legal code.

 

[Dakota Tebaldi]

If the crime is "leaving the state in order to get an abortion", then you do in fact commit that crime in the state you started from, not the state you went to, which I'm guessing is the "gotcha", or supposed to be anyways.

Likewise the laws criminalizing "enablement", whether by providing money or transportation or whatever. If you gave them travel money or a doctor's referral in Texas then Texas can arrest you even if they went and got the actual procedure somewhere else. It's insidious.

The best bet would be to discreetly leave the state in a normal way that it's not obvious is for healthcare purposes.

 

[Jolene Benoir]

If the crime is "leaving the state in order to get an abortion", then you do in fact commit that crime in the state you started from, not the state you went to, which I'm guessing is the "gotcha", or supposed to be anyways.

Likewise the laws criminalizing "enablement", whether by providing money or transportation or whatever. If you gave them travel money or a doctor's referral in Texas then Texas can arrest you even if they went and got the actual procedure somewhere else. It's insidious.

The best bet would be to discreetly leave the state in a normal way that it's not obvious is for healthcare purposes.

Sure, they could try to use the Mann Act, law related to insterstate comerce or RICO (I've seen them suggest this since the overturn of Roe) in which crossing state lines to commit a crime becomes a "federal" crime, but the SC knocked abortion back to the states.

The ‘White Slavery’ Law That Brought Down Jack Johnson is Still in Effect | HISTORY

The Mann Act was designed to prevent human trafficking—but used to punish interracial relationships.

www.history.com

Federal court jurisdiction over criminal conduct | Azhari (federalcriminallawyer.us)

Edit: Removed 2nd extra quote

 

[Essence Lumin]

There will surely be lots of women traveling to Mexico too. They decriminalized abortion last September.

 

[Soen Eber]

In local news...
Ramsey County judge rules that several Minnesota abortion restrictions are unconstitutional

This covers Minnesota, and involves a number of state laws the R's passed some few years back. The judge has been deciding the case for three years. The laws are unconstitutional per the state constitution, which is not the American constitution. Each state has a state constitution.

 

[Isabeau]

Can doctors and medical establishments be sued for not providing care (IUDs, etc.)? Or are they off the hook because of religious rights? Are Democrat state or federal politicians helping these women in any way($)?

 

[Veritable Quandry]

A whole bunch of red states have passed "religious freedom" laws to allow doctors, pharmacists, and others to refuse treatment or service based on their religion.

 

[Beebo Brink]

A whole bunch of red states have passed "religious freedom" laws to allow doctors, pharmacists, and others to refuse treatment or service based on their religion.

Of course, " based on their religion" is a meaningless standard, since basically anyone can claim a religious belief of any kind, for any purpose. As long as it has a vaguely Christian-sounding dogma, people will accept that as a truism. If it doesn't pass the "sure, that's kinda sorta like something a Christian might believe if you squint and look upside down" test, THEN there might be pushback.

 

[Innula Zenovka]

Does this apply to people working in bars and restaurants?

Could a bartender accept orders only for soft drinks, or a cook to refuse to prepare meat dishes, based on their religious views?

 

[Aribeth Zelin]

Does this apply to people working in bars and restaurants?

Could a bartender accept orders only for soft drinks, or a cook to refuse to prepare meat dishes, based on their religious views?

Good question. I mean, unlikely because bartenders specifically serve booze, so why would they be a bartender?

In other words, these 'religious exemption' laws are BS.

 

[Innula Zenovka]

I recall my sometime brother-in-law, a doctor, who had, as a Hindu, very grave religious objections to abortion, when he had to consider whether to take advantage of the opt-out "conscience clause" which allows British medical personnel to decline to be involved in performing abortions so long they arrange for the patient to be treated by someone else.

Having seriously considered the matter, particularly in the light of the Bhagavad Gita, which is very much about this kind of ethical dilemma, he concluded it was his dharma as a doctor to treat his patients to the best of his abilities rather than to impose his religious views on them and to make extra work for his over-stretched colleagues in the practice simply to avoid an aspect of his duties he found unpleasant.

 

[Veritable Quandry]

So far the laws have either been specific to medical care or wedding related services. Which led to one wedding venue in Mississippi trying to deny rentals to interracial couples on religious grounds except that ran afoul of Federal civil rights law.

 

[Essence Lumin]

Does this apply to people working in bars and restaurants?

Could a bartender accept orders only for soft drinks, or a cook to refuse to prepare meat dishes, based on their religious views?

I think it's supposed to apply to establishments, not at each employee's discretion. A bunch of bs however you look at it though.

 

[Essence Lumin]

Biden admin: Docs must offer abortion if mom's life at risk

WASHINGTON (AP) — The Biden administration on Monday told hospitals that they “must” provide abortion services if the life of the mother is at risk, saying federal law on emergency treatment guidelines preempts state laws in jurisdictions that now ban the procedure without any exceptions...

apnews.com

 

[Free]

 

[Jolene Benoir]

Ran across some mostly incels talking among themselves. Women as rape incubators: America, 2022. FFS.

I say give up. Sex toy / VR / AI technology is coming along in leaps and bounds, and if you never learned to have a relationship before your thirties you're going to have a shitty relationship. If passing on your genes is so important, bullshit your way into a sperm bank or get raping in an anti-abortion state.

 

[Innula Zenovka]

‘Thank the lord, I have been relieved’: the truth about the history of abortion in America

The long read: Abortion in the 19th-century US was widely accepted as a means of avoiding the risks of pregnancy. The idea of banning or punishing it came later

www.theguardian.com

Evernote link

(Abortion still is safer than pregnancy and childbirth).

 

[Beebo Brink]

‘Thank the lord, I have been relieved’: the truth about the history of abortion in America

The long read: Abortion in the 19th-century US was widely accepted as a means of avoiding the risks of pregnancy. The idea of banning or punishing it came later

www.theguardian.com

It's all about power. Always has been.

Class, racial and gender anxieties were factored into the doctors’ fear of losing power. As immigrants poured into the US, the birthrate for white, Protestant, middle-class married women plummeted to historic lows that couldn’t be attributed to miscarriage, celibacy or barrenness. Improved contraception was part of the reason, but so was an increase in the abortion rate. Storer and his peers became preoccupied with the latter – and for reasons that had less to do with protecting the right to life than with maintaining the prevailing social hierarchy. As Reagan writes, “Anti-abortion activists pointed out that immigrant families, many of them Catholic, were larger and would soon outpopulate native-born white Yankees and threaten their political power.”

 

[Innula Zenovka]

I don't often recommend YouTube videos, but this explainer by British legal analyst David Allen Green is interesting

 

[Bartholomew Gallacher]

The US initiative to damage tourism is now in full action, its newest lever is this:

‘Have you recently had an abortion?’ Australian transiting [to Canada] through US questioned then deported
.
An Australian woman who planned to house-sit in Canada during a holiday has said she was detained, fingerprinted, interrogated about her abortion history and quickly deported during a stopover in the US.

Gourley was told she would not be granted entry to the US and would be deported on the next flight back to Brisbane, five hours after arriving, because she had breached the conditions of the visa waiver program, which applies to citizens of Australia and many other countries making short visits to the US for business or tourism, but not regular employment.

The Aussie entered the USA in Los Angeles, California.

‘Have you recently had an abortion?’ Australian transiting through US questioned then deported

Madolline Gourley says she was on her way to Canada for a holiday when US immigration officials intervened

www.theguardian.com