Israel Halts Electricity Supply To Gaza

[Innula Zenovka]

 

[Bartholomew Gallacher]

More FFF - I really wonder who is in charge of that account...

 

[Soen Eber]

More FFF - I really wonder who is in charge of that account...

This isn't to you, Bartholomew, just kicking out some things to think about - pointing towards an obvious answer.

Does Hamas launch leaflets informing the area will be targetted, does Hamas launch non-explosive roof-knocking projectiles warning of an impending attack, are Hamas sponsors concerned about civilian casualties and tie their funding and exports towards that goal?

 

[GoblinCampFollower]

This isn't to you, Bartholomew, just kicking out some things to think about.

Does Hamas launch leaflets informing the area will be targetted, does Hamas launch non-explosive roof-knocking projectiles warning of an impending attack, are Hamas sponsors concerned about civilian casualties and tie their funding and exports towards that goal?

I agree with your basic point. I don't like the right wing government of Israel and don't think they want peace as badly as destroying their enemies but I do not draw the false equivalence between them and Hamas. Not doing good enough at avoiding civilian casualties is still worlds different than killing them intentionally.

I'd have coffee with an IDF soldier, but not with someone from Hamas...

 

[Soen Eber]

An evil mad-scientist bawahahahaha tecnocratic moment: Oh, did I say evil? I better say it again just to be sure. EVIL

You can't dig tunnels in a marsh. Gaza sits on the mediteranean sea. Could a powerful enough sea pump inject water into, say, a trench 50 meters wide and for the length of the northern Gaza cities? Not enough to ruin crop lands, but just enough to collapse tunnels. It would have to happen on the Israeli side of course, but the effluent (which would eventually be dried and sent back to Gaza. possibly treated to make into viable agricultural soil) could eventually cut a chasm deep and wide enough to make extended tunnel attacks (from that direction at least) nearly impossible.

EDIT: along the northern border, it is no higher than 45 meters. Along the eastern border it tops out in the very very low 100's. The real hangup will be the aquifiers as they will need to be secured while still allowing it to recharge naturally. There is promising research on distilling drinkable water from sea water but it probably won't be commercialy viable for 10 years maybe - and letting the likes of NatenYAHOO control the flow of agricultural water is a nightmare scenario.

Mad scientist out. Next up: Edmond Musk and the Mole people, buy in trade paperbacks at your regular authorized comics dealer. Collect the set! The Avengers need you.

 

[Innula Zenovka]

The Decolonization Narrative Is Dangerous and False

It does not accurately describe either the foundation of Israel or the tragedy of the Palestinians.

www.theatlantic.com

Evernote link

 

[Sid]

This isn't to you, Bartholomew, just kicking out some things to think about - pointing towards an obvious answer.

Does Hamas launch leaflets informing the area will be targetted, does Hamas launch non-explosive roof-knocking projectiles warning of an impending attack, are Hamas sponsors concerned about civilian casualties and tie their funding and exports towards that goal?

What is the use of leaflets if you have nowhere to flee to, if your house will be destroyed within a few minutes and no place to shelter?
Innocent Palestinian lives destroyed or killed is as bad as innocent Israeli lives destroyed or killed. Far from all are Hamas supporters. Just like not all Americans are Republicans when there is a republican president.
There is not one evil and one good in this story.
On both sides there is a lot of evil and a lot of innocent people.

At the moment Israel is acting not one grain better than the terror organization Hamas IMHO.

--
“Showing sympathy for what Israelis have experienced does not equal supporting Israel’s government, and standing in solidarity with Palestinians does not signal support of Hamas. It must be possible to show empathy with both peoples …”

 

[Innula Zenovka]

Perhaps worth remembering that demonstrations tend not to happen in Russia without government approval, and certainly not at sensitive areas like airports/


Evernote link

 

[Innula Zenovka]

Thread: More footage from Makhachkala, by the Financial Times' Moscow bureau chief

 

[Kamilah Hauptmann]

Shareholder value tho

Military Contractors Are Framing the Israeli War on Gaza as a Win for Investors

This week, arms industry executives at both Raytheon and General Dynamics spoke candidly about how Israel’s war on Gaza will be good for business.

jacobin.com

 

[Soen Eber]

Shareholder value tho

Military Contractors Are Framing the Israeli War on Gaza as a Win for Investors

This week, arms industry executives at both Raytheon and General Dynamics spoke candidly about how Israel’s war on Gaza will be good for business.

jacobin.com

Can't be helped, it's been baked into the landscape ever since Colt, Browning, and Krupp landscaping services (ask about their excavation rates, it'll blow you away) first went into business.

 

[Innula Zenovka]

 

[Bartholomew Gallacher]

Here's an interview from November 2022, done by enfant terribile Jordan B. Peterson with Benjamin Netanyahu in English named "The biggest lie in Palestine", so about how they claim to be in Israel first and Bibi says wrong. Netanyahu speaks without translator.

 

[Zaida Gearbox]

Wow -I figured you all would be all anti-Israel and they had it coming.

But, honest question - why is it Israel's responsibility to supply Gaza with electricity? Gaza shares a border with Egypt. Why don't they supply them with electric? After all the money we've sent them - why haven't the built the infrastructure to supply their own electric? They could put up solar panels on all the houses because the 1 thing they've got plenty of is sunshine. It seems like the Hamas leadership wants to keep Gaza in a shit state because it makes Israel look bad when in reality the only thing Israel is guilty of is having a closed border with what it considers an enemy state. Do I get that right?

 

[Veritable Quandry]

Israel does not recognize Gaza as a state. Hamas does not recognize Israel as a state. While Israel has withdrawn troops from Gaza, they control the borders, they built the wall that encircles Gaza, and they control imports and exports to the territory. Gaza is part of Palestine under military occupation.

As the occupying force and absent a two-state solution with established borders, Israel has responsibility as the occupying party. Making Egypt responsible would amount to giving part of Palestine to another country. It would spark a much wider war. And Egypt does not want or need the Hamas led territory.

On the one hand Hamas can not import the materials to build a power system because Israel won't let them. On the other hand Hamas has been using everything they can to build military capacity, which is why Israel won't let them.

 

[Innula Zenovka]

Wow -I figured you all would be all anti-Israel and they had it coming.

But, honest question - why is it Israel's responsibility to supply Gaza with electricity? Gaza shares a border with Egypt. Why don't they supply them with electric? After all the money we've sent them - why haven't the built the infrastructure to supply their own electric? They could put up solar panels on all the houses because the 1 thing they've got plenty of is sunshine. It seems like the Hamas leadership wants to keep Gaza in a shit state because it makes Israel look bad when in reality the only thing Israel is guilty of is having a closed border with what it considers an enemy state. Do I get that right?

I don't know what practical issues would be involved in supplying electricity or water to Gaza from Egypt, or even whether it would be possible without the agreement of Israel, who control road traffic across that border, judging by news reports about what relief supplies are and aren't being allowed to cross into Gaza (fuel to power generators and desalination plants aren't being allowed in, for example, because of concerns Hamas will divert it for military purposes).

But I think the point is that, for whatever reason, Israeli power and water utilities have been providing a supply to customers in Gaza (who have presumably been paying for it) in addition to whatever the Gazans have been able to provide for themselves with solar panels, wells or whatever, and the Israeli government has, in response to the murders, rapes and kidnappings of October 7, unilaterally cut them off.

As to the general point, though, Hamas certainly don't seem particularly interested in the wellbeing of the unfortunate Gazans, though I don't think that Benjamin Netanyahu, who came to power precisely because of his opposition to the "two state solution," wants a stable and economically successful Palestinian enclave in Gaza or the West Bank, either. Hamas, at least according to the clip I posted above, claim that since Israel is the occupying power in Gaza (because it controls the borders and airspace) Israel is responsible for ensuring supplies for the enclave.

 

[Innula Zenovka]

 

[Bartholomew Gallacher]

The issue with the two state solution seems to be that many Israelis do consider this today as a naive solution proposed by the states to the problem. And one which failed. Which is also why they dislike Biden coming around the corner with that old dog again so much.

So whatever plan Israel now has for Gaza, it will be different than in former times.

 

[Innula Zenovka]

Since I doubt Israel, after defeating Hamas, at least temporarily, will want to spend longer occupying a devastated Gaza than they can help, I suspect the next thing we'll see will be the Gazan enclave, possibly within new borders, rebuilt by an administration backed by a group of Arab states and the USA, probably funded by Saudi Arabia. No idea what will happen to the West Bank or, indeed, to Benjamin Netanyahu and his coalition after the fighting stops.

 

[Veritable Quandry]

The problem is once you take the two state solution off the table, the options are permanent apartheid, citizenship for the Palestinians in a single state, or ethnic cleansing. Thanks to two decades of aggressive settlement of the West Bank, it is hard to see a viable two state solution without displacing many Israelis. Both sides have rejected all solutions and unless something major changes then occupation of Palestine is the default decision and this will keep happening.