Dems Need To Learn From the UK Election to UNITE under one message: GET HIM OUT!

Kara Spengler

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Seriously, I have started to tell people that if they don’t vote Dem, they are voting against my healthcare and I could die. The Republicans are trying to kill ACA. The below thread explains how.
And it has nothing to do with childish notions that the Dems are “good people.” The Republicans are a cult, so they project that everyone else is too.
My sole issue is the survival of Medicaid and Medicare.
I could beg charity for food and shelter if I had to. *Nobody* smaller than the Federal government can afford my healthcare.

Followed after seeing a loooooooooong list of ppl I know.
 
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Arilynn

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I *want* the Dem candidates to fight among themselves. It will test their political instincts and the systems they have created to protect and project themselves. Let there be no stupid surprises or statements coming from the Dem candidate in the general election. Like a bored chimp, Trump knows how to fling shit - and which shit his voters will happily swallow in support of whatever fairytales they tell themselves. IMO, the Dem must win or the US will continue its slide toward ruin, so I want whoever emerges to have been extensively stress tested,
 

Beebo Brink

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I *want* the Dem candidates to fight among themselves. It will test their political instincts and the systems they have created to protect and project themselves.
:qft:
Every four years we go through this phase on the Democratic Underground, with forum members wringing their hands and falling back on their fainting couches whenever one candidate jabs another and draws blood. It's so tiresome. This is not the party falling apart; this is the party going through a deliberate process of judging candidates and how well they fight.

Without Bernie Sanders opposing Hillary Clinton every step of the way, I sincerely believe that she wouldn't have won the popular vote. He was the best thing that happened to her in 2016. And if there had been some additional viable candidates in the mix, to make it a real primary contest, she might well have won the election. Fighting on multiple fronts would have invigorated the campaign earlier and revealed her weakness in key states she took for granted.
 

Eunoli

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Without Bernie Sanders opposing Hillary Clinton every step of the way, I sincerely believe that she wouldn't have won the popular vote. He was the best thing that happened to her in 2016. And if there had been some additional viable candidates in the mix, to make it a real primary contest, she might well have won the election. Fighting on multiple fronts would have invigorated the campaign earlier and revealed her weakness in key states she took for granted.
I disagree about this. I think that if Bernie and Hilary hadn't gone at each other so hard, the Bernie contingent might have come out to vote for her in the key states - and in a place like Michigan that might've pushed her over the edge.
 
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NyteWytch

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A lot of the Bernie contingent were just straight up anti-Hillary. Wouldn't have mattered if they played patty cake or ripped jugulars...they didn't want Hillary. You don't vote trump (or refuse to vote) cuz your other fav got a case of the red ass, you vote trump cuz you want it all to burn.
 

Eunoli

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A lot of the Bernie contingent were just straight up anti-Hillary. Wouldn't have mattered if they played patty cake or ripped jugulars...they didn't want Hillary. You don't vote trump (or refuse to vote) cuz your other fav got a case of the red ass, you vote trump cuz you want it all to burn.
Very true. But, a lot did vote Stein as a protest in favor of Bernie and a lot stayed home, as well. At the time, no one (except me shouting on these forums) thought it would matter. We know better now.
 
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Beebo Brink

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Very true. But, a lot did vote Stein as a protest in favor of Bernie and a lot stayed home, as well. At the time, no one (except me shouting on these forums) thought it would matter. We know better now.
These were not lost Hillary votes. I'm with NyteWytch on this -- these are people who never have voted for Clinton. Sanders reached people that weren't invested in the Dem party.
 

Beebo Brink

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So, one of the offices for the company my spouse works for tried the open office plan thing. Guess what? They got rid of the idea...
I'm sitting in an open office plan now. A few upper management staff have offices, but they all open directly into the general bullpen area. It's okay because even though we all have phone meetings during the day, they're staggered enough that we don't overlap that often. There are side conference rooms if you really need to duck into one.

It's not a bad office plan in and of itself. Whether or not it works for a specific office, however, depends on the kind of work that is done there. Blaming the office plan is like blaming the wrench when someone tries to use it like a hammer. It's on the company to assess whether it's the right layout.
 
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Aribeth Zelin

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I'm sitting in an open office plan now. A few upper management staff have offices, but they all open directly into the general bullpen area. It's okay because even though we all have phone meetings during the day, they're staggered enough that we don't overlap that often. There are side conference rooms if you really need to duck into one.

It's not a bad office plan in and of itself. Whether or not it works for a specific office, however, depends on the kind of work that is done there. Blaming the office plan is like blaming the wrench when someone tries to use it like a hammer. It's on the company to assess whether it's the right layout.
But it doesn't work so well for an engineering firm. I can see plenty of office types that would work great with the open office plan, but when you need to concentrate as a major part of your job?
 

Innula Zenovka

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As people may know (though there's no particular reason why a non-Brit should take any particular interest), in the UK we're busy choosing a new leader for the Labour Party after Labour's dreadful showing in the recent general election.

The considerations are very different in the US vs the UK, because our political system is so different -- the party leader, whatever the party, has to lead the party in the House of Commons, as does Nancy Pelosi have to lead the Democrats in the House of Representatives, so she or he has to be able to command the support, whether enthusiastic or not, of all wings of the party (or, in Boris Johnson's case, to purge elements who can't be reconciled to the leader's policies) -- so the considerations that guide us over here are very different from those in the US.

However, what this does mean is that whoever becomes leader of the Labour Party in early March will spend the next four or five years both attempting to hold the government to account in Parliament and also -- at least as importantly -- spend that time developing policies that the whole party can unite around and which are attractive to the voters.

I'm not at all sure that would be possible in the US, but it struck that in many ways our system of the opposition party choosing well in advance the person who will lead them into the next election makes a lot more sense than selecting one only a matter of months before the actual election.
 
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Aeon Jiminy

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I think that Dr. Jill Biden's forecast of " Maybe you have to swallow a little" is likely going to be the last word on the 2020 election. I don't think she had any idea that she might have to be one of those people that has to end up sucking on it too every day that she's First Lady.

That's my condensed version, but I think that's how all of this is going to end. All of the "villains" of the last 4 years will be defeated and the "good guys" will have no one left to blame.
 
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Beebo Brink

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But it doesn't work so well for an engineering firm. I can see plenty of office types that would work great with the open office plan, but when you need to concentrate as a major part of your job?
The tweet that was referenced above wasn't about an open office plan for an engineering firm, it's about Bloomberg's plan to turn the East Room into an open office plan. I'm going to assume, given his background, that he has worked with teams in that kind of office layout before, and that he feels it's appropriate for his purposes. I can see how that might work well for instant communication between team members focused on solving issues that require discussion.
 

Innula Zenovka

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The tweet that was referenced above wasn't about an open office plan for an engineering firm, it's about Bloomberg's plan to turn the East Room into an open office plan. I'm going to assume, given his background, that he has worked with teams in that kind of office layout before, and that he feels it's appropriate for his purposes. I can see how that might work well for instant communication between team members focused on solving issues that require discussion.
I find Discord works pretty well for that, and I work from home as part of a team where we often need to discuss matters that require solving.
 

Katheryne Helendale

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But it doesn't work so well for an engineering firm. I can see plenty of office types that would work great with the open office plan, but when you need to concentrate as a major part of your job?
Well, much of what goes on in the East Room requires collaboration, so the open office plan may be useful.

That being said, I don't think Bloomberg expects to win the nomination. He's enough of a realist to realize he really doesn't have a chance. But, as was mentioned in another thread, he's in it to be Trump's worst campaign nightmare. His open office plan in the East wing? I suspect he's just warming up being a troll.
 
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Fionalein

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I suspect he's just warming up being a troll.
I just wondered if that is his plan all along. 4chan and reddit trolls usually cheer for the bigger bully - he might be able to win over parts of DT's base by showing them that Donnie is just another victim in wolf's clothing.

Let's face it, the Cheeto is arrogant, and lashes out furiously when prodded. He also seems to suffer from pathological narcissism and has an "empire" to loose. That means he is perfect trollbait.
 
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Cristalle

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Very true. But, a lot did vote Stein as a protest in favor of Bernie and a lot stayed home, as well. At the time, no one (except me shouting on these forums) thought it would matter. We know better now.
Jill Stein only got a fraction of the vote, and that is a percentage that is basically baked in. The real problem is that a lot of people did not like her and did not vote on the top block.


  • Arizona. Margin, 91,234. Undervote, 88,332 -- 96.8 percent of margin.
  • Maine. Margin, 22,142. Undervote, 23,965 -- 108.2 percent of margin.
  • Florida. Margin, 112,911. Undervote, 160,450 -- 142.1 percent of margin.
  • Michigan. Margin, 10,704. Undervote, 75,335 -- 703.8 percent of margin.
Stop blaming Stein. Third party votes are always going to be there. It was Clinton's responsibility to earn every vote. Look at Michigan. Look at Florida. Each of those blow Stein's numbers out of the water.


All four barbers had voted for Mr. Obama. But only two could muster the enthusiasm to vote this time. And even then, it was a sort of protest. One wrote in Mrs. Clinton’s Democratic opponent, Senator Bernie Sanders of Vermont. The other wrote in himself.
Perhaps the biggest drags on voter turnout in Milwaukee, as in the rest of the country, were the candidates themselves. To some, it was like having to choose between broccoli and liver.

“I felt cornered,” said Ian Pfeiffer, 25, who works the grill at Jake’s Delicatessen and says he did not vote. “We were stuck between Trump and Hillary. They really left us with no choice.”
Few of the men and women interviewed on West North Street last week had voted for Mr. Trump, though many said they admired him. (He spoke his mind. He was rich.)
Can we get to the actual reasons why people didn't vote, versus blaming a few who voted third party, like some people always do?
 

Anya Ristow

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A lot of the Bernie contingent were just straight up anti-Hillary. Wouldn't have mattered if they played patty cake or ripped jugulars...they didn't want Hillary.
Most of this animosity developed during the primary.

The deal she had to control the DNC during the primary was in the works long before she had an opponent. No matter who she ran against, she was going to have (*cough* cause *cough*) the same problems. Remember, before there were "Bernie Bros" there were "Obama Boys".

2020 is still Kumbaya compared to 2016 and 2008. Short of discovering that Joe Biden is running the DNC, or his campaign chair taking over as DNC chair, I don't think 2020 can turn out like 2016. Right now, the Bernie Bros most irksome challenger is the media.
 
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