Dems Need To Learn From the UK Election to UNITE under one message: GET HIM OUT!

Beebo Brink

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While it is awful, the shame is that had she been a man, we probably wouldn't know this.
I'm not sure I agree with that. Keep in mind, if Klobuchar wasn't running for president, we wouldn't be hearing about this either. Once you throw your hat into the ring, you step into an intense spotlight. That's why we know Mitt Romney's dog story.
 

Katheryne Helendale

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I'm not sure I agree with that. Keep in mind, if Klobuchar wasn't running for president, we wouldn't be hearing about this either. Once you throw your hat into the ring, you step into an intense spotlight. That's why we know Mitt Romney's dog story.
That is true. But I feel like the women are under more intense scrutiny than the men, especially in our current political environment.
 

Innula Zenovka

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Forgive me if these points have been raised before but I've not read the full thread, what with house moves, Christmas and needing a bit of time to consider matters after the disastrous UK election results.

However, I would issue a couple of cautions against drawing simple conclusions from our experience in the UK.

The first is that there are, of course, multiple reasons why we (Labour) did so badly in the elections, but their precise nature is still a matter of heated ideological debate.

There's also the point -- very often forgotten -- that in parliamentary democracies, you vote not for the Head of Government (Prime Minister) but for the local Member of Parliament.

Obviously, by voting for your local MP, you're sometimes voting for (or against) the next government and PM too (though not always, by any means -- no one voting for the SNP or PC expects their party's leader to become PM since they run candidates only in Scotland and Wales).

However, even when you do vote for a candidate whose party leader may become the next PM, that's only one consideration -- I live in a Labour-held English marginal constituency, so my vote might, indirectly, have resulted in Jeremy Corbyn as PM, but my vote was very much for my local MP, for whom I have a very high regard, rather than for Corbyn.

In other words, I voted Labour despite the fact Corbyn was leading the party, not because he was leading it.

Similarly, I think the party has to have a manifesto that seems attractive and coherent to the voters, which Labour's certainly wasn't. We had plenty of attractive policies, certainly, but the overall impression was that we were getting a confused wish-list, not a thought-out and costed reform programme that stood any chance of being implemented in the next five years.

So, I think my advice would be not to make the mistake of assuming that everyone hates the other side's leader as much as you do, and not to make the similar mistake of assuming that everyone likes your leader quite as much as you do, either. Few voters here were in any doubt about Boris Johnson's many faults, but neither were they in any doubt about Corbyn's many defects, either.

Furthermore, I think the US Democrats have to go into the elections with an attractive and credible programme for the next four years that they feel comfortable urging upon the voters, and which voters can support, too.

"Vote me because I'm nowhere near as bad as the other guy" is not an election winner, even when it's true.
 

Fionalein

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Forgive me if these points have been raised before but I've not read the full thread, what with house moves, Christmas and needing a bit of time to consider matters after the disastrous UK election results.

However, I would issue a couple of cautions against drawing simple conclusions from our experience in the UK.

The first is that there are, of course, multiple reasons why we (Labour) did so badly in the elections, but their precise nature is still a matter of heated ideological debate.

There's also the point -- very often forgotten -- that in parliamentary democracies, you vote not for the Head of Government (Prime Minister) but for the local Member of Parliament.

Obviously, by voting for your local MP, you're sometimes voting for (or against) the next government and PM too (though not always, by any means -- no one voting for the SNP or PC expects their party's leader to become PM since they run candidates only in Scotland and Wales).

However, even when you do vote for a candidate whose party leader may become the next PM, that's only one consideration -- I live in a Labour-held English marginal constituency, so my vote might, indirectly, have resulted in Jeremy Corbyn as PM, but my vote was very much for my local MP, for whom I have a very high regard, rather than for Corbyn.

In other words, I voted Labour despite the fact Corbyn was leading the party, not because he was leading it.

Similarly, I think the party has to have a manifesto that seems attractive and coherent to the voters, which Labour's certainly wasn't. We had plenty of attractive policies, certainly, but the overall impression was that we were getting a confused wish-list, not a thought-out and costed reform programme that stood any chance of being implemented in the next five years.

So, I think my advice would be not to make the mistake of assuming that everyone hates the other side's leader as much as you do, and not to make the similar mistake of assuming that everyone likes your leader quite as much as you do, either. Few voters here were in any doubt about Boris Johnson's many faults, but neither were they in any doubt about Corbyn's many defects, either.

Furthermore, I think the US Democrats have to go into the elections with an attractive and credible programme for the next four years that they feel comfortable urging upon the voters, and which voters can support, too.

"Vote me because I'm nowhere near as bad as the other guy" is not an election winner, even when it's true.
That's a two way street though, many Germans voted Merkel despite her party. Funny enough many others voted her party despite Merkel.
 

Innula Zenovka

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That's a two way street though, many Germans voted Merkel despite her party. Funny enough many others voted her party despite Merkel.
It's my point only looked at from the opposite direction, I think -- party loyalists (like me) will tend to vote for the party's candidate even though they don't much care for the party leader (I don't care much for Corbyn, and think the best that can be said of him is that he isn't as bad as Johnson) but it's important to choose a leader whom people who aren't committed party supporters can accept as Head of Government.

The lessons to be learned from another country's elections are always a bit dubious -- different parties and personalities are in play, as are different political issues, cultures, and history -- but it's always important, to my mind, to have a party leader and a set of policies behind whom activists and supporters can unite and -- most importantly -- for whom they can advocate when canvassing and campaigning in a way that's likely to persuade uncommitted voters.
 
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Ashiri

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That's a two way street though, many Germans voted Merkel despite her party. Funny enough many others voted her party despite Merkel.
But Germany has a different electoral system.
Just as I can vote for a National Party candidate as my MP, but Labour (or Greens) for Party. (NZ copied the German system)
 
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Clara D.

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Siri, show me a terrible manager:

Open offices to ensure that phone calls are replete with background noise! At least he's not making everyone stand all day?

Management tend to grab onto some of the stupidest fads. The real purpose of open offices is to squish more people in the same space and make it easier for control freaks to "keep an eye" on everyone, it's not conducive to actual work.
 
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Kamilah Hauptmann

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Open offices to ensure that phone calls are replete with background noise! At least he's not making everyone stand all day?

Management tend to grab onto some of the stupidest fads. The real purpose of open offices is to squish more people in the same space and make it easier for control freaks to "keep an eye" on everyone, it's not conducive to actual work.
Thread:
 

Brenda Archer

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Protest votes in swing states are ok.

Seriously, I have started to tell people that if they don’t vote Dem, they are voting against my healthcare and I could die. The Republicans are trying to kill ACA. The below thread explains how.
And it has nothing to do with childish notions that the Dems are “good people.” The Republicans are a cult, so they project that everyone else is too.
My sole issue is the survival of Medicaid and Medicare.
I could beg charity for food and shelter if I had to. *Nobody* smaller than the Federal government can afford my healthcare.

 

Romana

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Seriously, I have started to tell people that if they don’t vote Dem, they are voting against my healthcare and I could die. The Republicans are trying to kill ACA. The below thread explains how.
And it has nothing to do with childish notions that the Dems are “good people.” The Republicans are a cult, so they project that everyone else is too.
My sole issue is the survival of Medicaid and Medicare.
I could beg charity for food and shelter if I had to. *Nobody* smaller than the Federal government can afford my healthcare.

Someone just called me to let me know that a woman I'd grown up with is seriously ill with brain cancer. Her family has had to start a GoFundMe because insurance didn't cover the care she needs now. If that's the way it is now, he much worse will it be if they do manage to overturn the ACA? 😰
 

Brenda Archer

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Someone just called me to let me know that a woman I'd grown up with is seriously ill with brain cancer. Her family has had to start a GoFundMe because insurance didn't cover the care she needs now. If that's the way it is now, he much worse will it be if they do manage to overturn the ACA? 😰
She’d probably be denied for pre-existing. I’m so sorry. This awfulness gets worse and worse.
😥
 

Romana

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Casey Pelous

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Dude's got a point. But how could they say it without the Republicans using their words against them?
You're going to need to give some examples of words the Republicans wouldn't use against us. It is abundantly clear that truth means absolutely nothing to anyone still in the Republican party; all that matters is domination.