Dems Need To Learn From the UK Election to UNITE under one message: GET HIM OUT!

Jolene Benoir

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Point taken, but I cannot read that graphic at all, even where it was posted on Twitter.
 
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Aribeth Zelin

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And again, that ignores that some of the people who voted for HRC or Twitler were also not Republicans or Democrats. Independents are the biggest single block and neither party either knows how to win us over nor even cares.

[Not mad at you, just tired of all sides ignoring that indies are the ones who can make a difference [that and removing the electoral college]
 

Brenda Archer

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And again, that ignores that some of the people who voted for HRC or Twitler were also not Republicans or Democrats. Independents are the biggest single block and neither party either knows how to win us over nor even cares.

[Not mad at you, just tired of all sides ignoring that indies are the ones who can make a difference [that and removing the electoral college]
The press keeps portraying the indies as closet Trumpists, which is misleading, but tells us something about the press.

I can understand not wanting to be a Dem, but I can’t understand someone not voting against Trump: even if the opponent was somebody like Bloomberg, who is definitely not my first choice. If we can’t have ideology, why not vote for competence? ANY Dem administration is going to be more competent than the Repubs.

People will say, “My vote doesn’t matter” while Representatives get elected by margins in the mere thousands.

I can understand despair, but campaigning isn’t going to change that. People need to turn off the TV and talk to their neighbors. That might change something. The Dems need to improve their local game in a lot of places, and they are not doing it, or seeing it as a long-term investment.
 

Beebo Brink

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Based on sheer poll numbers, the current wisdom would be to unite behind Biden as the only candidate who can oust Trump.

I'll "unite" and vote for him in the general election, if he does indeed become the Democratic nominee, but no amount of scolding is going to persuade me to vote for him in the primary. Uniting can wait, tyvm.
 

Brenda Archer

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I don't know. When the UK united under one message, they became very easy to manipulate. Look what they got and look at what they lost :cry:.

Is it really a good idea to risk forcing this election to be about defending the choices made from the last one?
What are you talking about? Hillary isn’t running. If you really want to vote for Trump, no one is stopping you. I just think it is suicidal for anyone who isn’t in the .01%.
 

Ariane

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Here in Arizona, Buttigieg is leading polls and leading in head to head vs Trump.

But because we are not Wisconsin, Ohio or Florida our vote doesn't matter.
 
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Brenda Archer

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Here in Arizona, Buttigieg is leading polls and leading in head to head vs Trump.

But because we are not Wisconsin, Ohio or Florida our vote doesn't matter.
I’ll be voting anyway, of course, but it is very frustrating, especially since we’re going purple.
 
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Beebo Brink

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But because we are not Wisconsin, Ohio or Florida our vote doesn't matter.
Same here in West Virginia. But if the primary vote count is split going into the Democratic convention, if no one candidate hits the magic number, then 2020 could be a very interesting year.
 
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Kara Spengler

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People will say, “My vote doesn’t matter” while Representatives get elected by margins in the mere thousands.

I can understand despair, but campaigning isn’t going to change that. People need to turn off the TV and talk to their neighbors. That might change something. The Dems need to improve their local game in a lot of places, and they are not doing it, or seeing it as a long-term investment.
Depending on where you live that is often the truth though. If you talk about the presidential elections most states are foregone conclusions. Some of them can still swing in their results but if a state is ALWAYS highly blue or red (like 90% one party is a good bet) people in that state are better off doing get-out-the-vote efforts elsewhere, even if they wind up not being able to vote in their home states because of that effort.

As to legislators, well, not all US citizens even HAVE one. Yes, more than 2 centuries after the revolutionary war there is still taxation without representation. Even without that fact though, whoever is your legislators know probably will be until they themselves decide to stop running. Not always, but it is a pretty good bet, how do you think we get senators/reps that have held the same seat for decades?

Federal elections are royally messed up. Campaigning for a local position has a better rate of return.
 
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Brian

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You can't comfortably compare politics in UK with the US. While many things may be similar, it still was far more than any GOTV problem in the UK.
Labour had the worst loss in almost a century, including losing longtime strongholds.

Brexit wasn't even the determinant this time. Corbyn was too wishy-washy to take a stand other than wanting another referendum while supporting Leave.
The problem has been Labour itself; mostly, Corbyn.

A good thread to scroll up through to see how nobody was really blindsided (I'm linking at the end of it) -
The BBC interview where Corbyn destroyed Corbyn itself was enough.



A discussion on 538's podcast still had pundits talking about the role of White Working Class.
The Far Left in western politics has to return to having dominant ant-racist stances instead of being class based only, and have strong, popular leadership.
 

Brenda Archer

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Depending on where you live that is often the truth though. If you talk about the presidential elections most states are foregone conclusions. Some of them can still swing in their results but if a state is ALWAYS highly blue or red (like 90% one party is a good bet) people in that state are better off doing get-out-the-vote efforts elsewhere, even if they wind up not being able to vote in their home states because of that effort.

As to legislators, well, not all US citizens even HAVE one. Yes, more than 2 centuries after the revolutionary war there is still taxation without representation. Even without that fact though, whoever is your legislators know probably will be until they themselves decide to stop running. Not always, but it is a pretty good bet, how do you think we get senators/reps that have held the same seat for decades?

Federal elections are royally messed up. Campaigning for a local position has a better rate of return.
I do wish people would get more involved locally. That’s what builds up the machine to elect Mayors and Governors. It’s the difference between a place like Vermont and places where religions run things, because they’re most of what is organized on the ground.

Very definitely we should try to get DC and PR become states, if they want it. This would help fix the way the Senate is not representative. Otherwise perpetual minority government is going to run us into the ground.
 
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What are you talking about? Hillary isn’t running. If you really want to vote for Trump, no one is stopping you. I just think it is suicidal for anyone who isn’t in the .01%.
If you have anything like a long term plan and don't belong to the 0.1% upholding the status quo is suicidal too. Some Trump voters went for him because he breaks things (apparently the only promise he can keep). Civil wars are big equalizers. It is a brutal logic but it puts the American Dream back in reach, don't underestimate desperation as a motivator.
 

Brenda Archer

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If you have anything like a long term plan and don't belong to the 0.1% upholding the status quo is suicidal too. Some Trump voters went for him because he breaks things (apparently the only promise he can keep). Civil wars are big equalizers. It is a brutal logic but it puts the American Dream back in reach, don't underestimate desperation as a motivator.
I can’t support anyone who wants civil war or any other form of self-imposed collapse. This will not get the country back for us. In a high-tech state, it will lead to a prison state. We’re halfway there already.

The mechanisms to control us are in place, effective already and not defeatable with low tech violence.

Civil war will be particularly brutal to anyone too poor to escape when food supply chains and government safety net programs collapse. This is at least half the population, not a disposable fringe. We can’t win chaos.