Dems Need To Learn From the UK Election to UNITE under one message: GET HIM OUT!

Cristalle

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You CANNOT divorce the entire collective means of meddling in our election from memes. You simply can't. I am saying to you that your repeated attempts to imply that only memes were an issue is very instructive and enlightening into your mindset or, perhaps, agenda.

LMAO @ you thinking I'm calling you a russian bot! That is really how you think?

OMG, you are far down some hole.
AGAIN: I have never - NEVER - said that memes were the only issue. That's a figment of your imagination. I bitch about it because I think it's an excuse to control conversation.
 

Spirits Rising

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I think that you are exasperated with the same old shit by the same actors. Sometimes you come across as harsh, but you knew that, as does everyone else here. I think that it isn't going to matter what you say, your method (or perceived method) of delivery is always going to be used as a means to discredit what you are saying.

The same happened with Sal.
If I am being brutally honest, I learned some time ago - on a whole other forum with far more lax moderation - that attempting to discuss politics beyond a certain point is rather ... pointless for me.

I'll react here and there, both to posts that somewhat mirror my own views and to those that run counter. on the rare occasion I'll chime in to point something out to another poster (as i did this time) and perhaps continue on until the message is understood or until they simply dismiss what is being said.

The most recent back and forth just pulls this into rather stark view as I keep forgetting that there are those who really don't care how they come across - yes I can be like that too, I'll admit - while seeming to hand wave concerns away.

I'll also admit to having something of a Father/Dad complex that pokes its head out sometimes ...Bloody well not in the way my posts seem to have been taken here though.
 
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Jolene Benoir

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AGAIN: I have never - NEVER - said that memes were the only issue. That's a figment of your imagination. I bitch about it because I think it's an excuse to control conversation.
Perhaps you are not acknowledging that the rest of us ARE concerned about more than memes and DO see the entire picture. Your repeated attempts to downplay it as memes are rather frustrating, especially when you attempt to make it out as people, either a) acting as McCarthyites (you've said that) or b) seeing Russian bots everywhere.

I am pretty damn certain that you understand all of this and it rather comes across as YOU attempting to control the conversation.
 

Jolene Benoir

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If I am being brutally honest, I learned some time ago - on a whole other forum with far more lax moderation - that attempting to discuss politics beyond a certain point is rather ... pointless for me.

I'll react here and there, both to posts that somewhat mirror my own views and to those that run counter. on the rare occasion I'll chime in to point something out to another poster (as i did this time) and perhaps continue on until the message is understood or until they simply dismiss what is being said.

The most recent back and forth just pulls this into rather stark view as I keep forgetting that there are those who really don't care how they come across - yes I can be like that too, I'll admit - while seeming to hand wave concerns away.

I'll also admit to having something of a Father/Dad complex that pokes its head out sometimes ...Bloody well not in the way my posts seem to have been taken here though.
Don't worry about it. The problem isn't really how you are saying it, it is what you are saying. You could be saying it in the sweetest possible tone and it would not matter. Fault would be found.
 

Cristalle

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Perhaps you are not acknowledging that the rest of us ARE concerned about more than memes and DO see the entire picture. Your repeated attempts to downplay it as memes are rather frustrating, especially when you attempt to make it out as people, either a) acting as McCarthyites (you've said that) or b) seeing Russian bots everywhere.

I am pretty damn certain that you understand all of this and it rather comes across as YOU attempting to control the conversation.
Again: I don't see the need to discuss every single thing every time we discuss one aspect of something. It's called compartmentalization, focus. I have never challenged the idea that the other methods were a thing, I have agreed with that but get no credit because the shit about memes looms so large and people make a big deal out of them.

I'm discussing whatever I want to. That whole freedom of speech thing, you know? We can have a vigorous conversation, we can disagree on issues and that's fine! But stop putting words in my mouth.
 
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Jolene Benoir

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Again: I don't see the need to discuss every single thing every time we discuss one aspect of something. It's called compartmentalization, focus. I have never challenged the idea that the other methods were a thing, I have agreed with that but get no credit because the shit about memes looms so large and people make a big deal out of them.

I'm discussing whatever I want to. That whole freedom of speech thing, you know? We can have a vigorous conversation, we can disagree on issues and that's fine! But stop putting words in my mouth.
No, of course you do not see the need because it fits your agenda of downplaying the meddling to nothing but memes.

Of course you can discuss whatever you like (freedom of speech and all) and I will, in return, have my own freedom of speech.

Nobody is putting words into your mouth. In fact, quotes are coming directly from your mouth.
 

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Don't worry about it. The problem isn't really how you are saying it, it is what you are saying. You could be saying it in the sweetest possible tone and it would not matter. Fault would be found.
That's the impression I've gotten thus far, across both times this has happened now.

Being "real" for a moment here: I'd absolutely love it if we could get a strong candidate into the General and have him/her win against the shit stain in office, one that will not only try to fix what he's broken but that will move forward with plans that will benefit the average Joe/Jane as well as those (like myself) who are disabled.

I'd love it dearly if I didn't have to do so much budgeting each month with my SSI and SNAP - be that because Social Security/SSI are finally properly scaled up or because we have a o permanent replacement that actually takes the bloody cost of living into proper account (some of the UBI proposals).

I'd dearly love it if we had a Universal healthcare system in place that was truly Universal. I just had to swap pharmacies because Walgreen's and Care Source don't see eye to eye anymore ... and may have to correct some of my information in CVS's systems next bloody month when I get the next round of refills for my blood pressure medications.

I am also keenly aware of the need to look forward: More and more things will be automated, vehicles included. Medical procedures are being looked into now that would eventually allow someone in my position to bypass the absolute bullshit I've had to deal with thus far - shit that pales when compared to what others have to deal with at that!

Thing of it is this: If I want any of this to transpire I have to work within the system we have, failings and all. I really do not want to and if I had it my way .... Well our current system of government would not - for a time - exist. Humans are fallible however and thus the way I'd like to see things done is quite impossible without running the risk of it going the other way - right into the shitter. Not like it isn't looking to head that way right now either ...

I'm not even forty yet (three more years) and I am honestly wondering what the fucking point is anymore.
 
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Innula Zenovka

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If anyone is interested, according to the report prepared by the University of Oxford's Computational Propaganda Research Project at the request of the US Senate's Intelligence Select Committee,

Russia’s Internet Research Agency (IRA) launched an extended attack on the United States by using computational propaganda to misinform and polarize US voters. This report provides the first major analysis of this attack based on data provided by social media firms to the Senate Select Committee on Intelligence (SSCI).

[....]
  • Between 2013 and 2018, the IRA’s Facebook, Instagram, and Twitter campaigns reached tens of millions of users in the United States.
    • Over 30 million users, between 2015 and 2017, shared the IRA’s Facebook and Instagram posts with their friends and family, liking, reacting to, and commenting on them along the way.
    • Peaks in advertising and organic activity often correspond to important dates in the US political calendar, crises, and international events.
    • IRA activities focused on the US began on Twitter in 2013 but quickly evolved into a multi-platform strategy involving Facebook, Instagram, and YouTube among other platforms.
    • The most far reaching IRA activity is in organic posting, not advertisements.
  • Russia’s IRA activities were designed to polarize the US public and interfere in elections by:
    • campaigning for African American voters to boycott elections or follow the wrong voting procedures in 2016, and more recently for Mexican American and Hispanic voters to distrust US institutions;
    • encouraging extreme right-wing voters to be more confrontational; and
    • spreading sensationalist, conspiratorial, and other forms of junk political news and misinformation to voters across the political spectrum.

While some of the content was explicitly anti-Clinton, the main emphasis was on depressing the vote and encouraging distrust, confusion and confrontation.

Certainly the IRA's meddling amounted to considerably more than "a handful of memes" (interestingly, exactly the same trope about "a few memes" has been used by people trying to suggest Cambridge Analytica's meddling in the Brexit referendum can have had little influence on the outcome).
 

Cristalle

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No, of course you do not see the need because it fits your agenda of downplaying the meddling to nothing but memes.

Of course you can discuss whatever you like (freedom of speech and all) and I will, in return, have my own freedom of speech.

Nobody is putting words into your mouth. In fact, quotes are coming directly from your mouth.
Oh please. At no point did I ever say that the voter machine tampering wasn't real. Or the possibility of messing with the registration rolls.

You can give your opinion just the same, but don't lie about me.
 

Cristalle

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If anyone is interested, according to the report prepared by the University of Oxford's Computational Propaganda Research Project at the request of the US Senate's Intelligence Select Committee,



While some of the content was explicitly anti-Clinton, the main emphasis was on depressing the vote and encouraging distrust, confusion and confrontation.

Certainly the IRA's meddling amounted to considerably more than "a handful of memes" (interestingly, exactly the same trope about "a few memes" has been used by people trying to suggest Cambridge Analytica's meddling in the Brexit referendum can have had little influence on the outcome).
If the Congressional testimony about the amounts spent are true, then a relatively small slice of the population actually saw said memes. Not saying that NOBODY in the literal sense saw them; I am saying that I don't believe that that's enough to sway an election.

New Studies Show Pundits Are Wrong About Russian Social-Media Involvement in US Politics

Based on all of this data, we can draw this picture of Russian social-media activity: It was mostly unrelated to the 2016 election; microscopic in reach, engagement, and spending; and juvenile or absurd in its content. This leads to the inescapable conclusion, as the New Knowledge study acknowledges, that “the operation’s focus on elections was merely a small subset” of its activity. They qualify that “accurate” narrative by saying it “misses nuance and deserves more contextualization.” Alternatively, perhaps it deserves some minimal reflection that a juvenile social-media operation with such a small focus on elections is being widely portrayed as a seismic threat that may well have decided the 2016 contest.

Doing so leads us to conclusions that have nothing to do with Russian social-media activity, nor with the voters supposedly influenced by it. Take the widespread speculation that Russian social-media posts may have suppressed the black vote. That a Russian troll farm sought to deceive black audiences and other targeted demographics on social media is certainly contemptible. But in criticizing that effort there’s no reason to assume it was successful—and yet that’s exactly what the pundits did. “When you consider the narrow margins by which [Donald Trump] won [Michigan and Wisconsin], and poor minority turnout there, these Russian voter suppression efforts may have been decisive,” former Obama adviser David Axelrod commented. “Black voter turnout declined in 2016 for the first time in 20 years in a presidential election,” The New York Times conspicuously notes, “but it is impossible to determine whether that was the result of the Russian campaign.”

That it is even considered possible that the Russian campaign impacted the black vote displays a rather stunning paternalism and condescension. Would Axelrod, Times reporters, or any of the others floating a similar scenario accept a suggestion that their own votes might be susceptible to silly social-media posts mostly unrelated to the election? If not, what does that tell us about their attitudes toward the people that they presume could be so vulnerable?
 

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Jolene Benoir

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Oh please. At no point did I ever say that the voter machine tampering wasn't real. Or the possibility of messing with the registration rolls.

You can give your opinion just the same, but don't lie about me.
This is tiring. YOU, specifically, toss around terms like McCarthyite, post images like that in this thread basically accusing anyone who has concerns about the very real Russian interference of being like McCarthy and of seeing Russians in every corner, aka a witch hunt. You also consistently act as if memes were the only method of attack. You've done this numerous times throughout this board.

You say, "I never said other things weren't important". Yet, you don't mention them. You never do. You'd much rather pretend that it was just memes so you can act as if others are paranoid, over-reaching, etc... It's getting damn old.

Nobody is lying about you when they post your own damn words.
 
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Cristalle

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This is tiring. YOU, specifically, toss around terms like McCarthyite, post images like that in this thread basically accusing anyone who has concerns about the very real Russian interference of being like McCarthy and of seeing Russians in every corner, aka a witch hunt. You also consistently act as if memes were the only method of attack. You've done this numerous times throughout this board.

You say, "I never said other things weren't important". Yet, you don't mention them. You never do. You'd much rather pretend that it was just memes so you can act as if others are paranoid, over-reaching, etc... It's getting damn old.

Nobody is lying about you when they post your own damn words.
You haven't posted a single scrip where I said those other things didn't happen.

Your obsession with the memes is your problem. It's called not going off on a tangent.
 

Jolene Benoir

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You haven't posted a single scrip where I said those other things didn't happen.

Your obsession with the memes is your problem. It's called not going off on a tangent.
WTF? *I* am not the one with the obsession with memes. I don't need to post you saying that those other things didn't happen. I have been posting you attempting to minimize by quantifying it down to just memes. You might make a better propagandist than Trumpers.
 

Cristalle

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WTF? *I* am not the one with the obsession with memes. I don't need to post you saying that those other things didn't happen. I have been posting you attempting to minimize by quantifying it down to just memes. You might make a better propagandist than Trumpers.
What the fuck ever. I said that I just didn't focus on it. I'm not "minimizing" those things, I've always said that those were the larger threats! This is really deranged.
 
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Jolene Benoir

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What the fuck ever. I said that I just didn't focus on it. I'm not "minimizing" those things, I've always said that those were the larger threats! This is really deranged.
Ah, so now it is deranged to call you out. See? You talk just as much smack as anyone else, yet you attempt to portray that you wear a halo. That is ridiculous and it's wearing very thin.
 
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Cristalle

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You've spun your narrative, and nothing penetrates your brain that I just compartmentalized and focused on one aspect. I have never disagreed with the other things happening, but you can't quote that, it's easier to just go on with your little fantasy. You are the one making it into something bigger than it is.