Democratic Party Presidential Candidates for 2020

Brenda Archer

Well-known member
Sep 21, 2018
254
Arizona
I agree it would be off the point but I have to say that one of the reasons I'm highly suspicious of Bernie Sanders is that I don't think he's so much a socialist as a left-wing populist, not unlike our Jeremy Corbyn and his Corbynista cult, who are one of the reasons the Labour Party are having such difficulties.

I've recently finished reading Corbynism: A Critical Approach, a left-wing analysis and critique of Corbyn and his policies, and the authors make some very persuasive points about how close Bernie Sanders, Steve Bannon, and Jeremy Corbyn all seem to be in many points of their understanding (which the authors would say is oversimplified and unhistorical) both of capitalism and social relationships within capitalism and of nature and role of the nation state.

These, I would stress, are not simply academic criticisms. Portraying modern capitalist relationships simply as an innocent system that's been hijacked and forced to serve the interests of a corrupt and selfish "few" or "one percent" or elite of globalists and international capitalists , which simply needs to be brought under the control of the nation state, to work fairly on behalf of the many, or the 99%, or whatever, leads to very real and, I would say, potentially very undesirable political consequences.

I'm not sure I'd even call Sanders a populist. I think he is just plain old left of center. Calling himself "socialist" serves mainly to defang hard Right criticisms where "socialist" has become a synonym for any Democrat at all.

"Capitalism" is also used incorrectly here, so for example Fannie Mae, privatized prisons and de facto government supported health insurance companies are all called "capitalist" even though they're really examples of corporations making money off taxpayers and students.

These are the kinds of companies also considered by many to be corruption, so the complaints against corruption aren't actually complaints against normally regulated capitalism. This is the subject Warren has become famous for. Having the government take direct control of taxpayer money now going into corporations will be smeared as "socialism," as if taxpayers don't have the right to control our own money.

I don't think most American voters understand either the word "socialist" or "capitalist" in any accurate sense. They've just become polarized swear words.

I don't think we really have any kind of Marxist Left to speak of. Almost everyone in Congress, and any state governor, is left of center at most.
 

Brenda Archer

Well-known member
Sep 21, 2018
254
Arizona
I'm not sure I'd even call Sanders a populist. I think he is just plain old left of center. Calling himself "socialist" serves mainly to defang hard Right criticisms where "socialist" has become a synonym for any Democrat at all.

"Capitalism" is also used incorrectly here, so for example Fannie Mae, privatized prisons and de facto government supported health insurance companies are all called "capitalist" even though they're really examples of corporations making money off taxpayers and students.

These are the kinds of companies also considered by many to be corruption, so the complaints against corruption aren't actually complaints against normally regulated capitalism. This is the subject Warren has become famous for. Having the government take direct control of taxpayer money now going into corporations will be smeared as "socialism," as if taxpayers don't have the right to control our own money.

I don't think most American voters understand either the word "socialist" or "capitalist" in any accurate sense. They've just become polarized swear words.

I don't think we really have any kind of Marxist Left to speak of. Almost everyone in Congress, and any state governor, is left of center at most.

I should add there are also legit complaints about things like the bank bailout, which was ultimately caused by deregulation, and there's the problem with lobbyists and dark campaign money, etc. etc. all of which get called corruption whether they're legal or not, but I'm sure I'm tired and belaboring the point. The Republicans live for this. I don't think most of the voters understand much about Marxism and think it's a version of Soviet Communism.
 

danielravennest

Active member
Sep 21, 2018
512
It's no excuse, but honestly... if I knew that I had a good shot at not winning, I wouldn't bother to release mine, either.
I suspect the reason he hasn't released them is his wife was a university president, making about twice what he did as a senator. Together they earned half a million a year, plus whatever other assets and incomes they have accumulated over the years. That puts them firmly out of the "common man" character he likes to project, and into the 1%'er bracket.
 

Aribeth Zelin

Faeryfox
Sep 23, 2018
220
Thing is, I don't care how much money an older person has managed to save away or whatever, it more depends on what they DO. My mom is worth a good bit now, but she donated time and money to help others, and has a unique perspective on just what's wrong with this country; as she puts it, she thinks its wrong that having more money, mostly from investments, that she pays so much less in taxes than we do.
 

Bartholomew Gallacher

Well-known member
Sep 26, 2018
573
Thing is, I don't care how much money an older person has managed to save away or whatever, it more depends on what they DO. My mom is worth a good bit now, but she donated time and money to help others, and has a unique perspective on just what's wrong with this country; as she puts it, she thinks its wrong that having more money, mostly from investments, that she pays so much less in taxes than we do.
If anything, taxes for the lower and middle class and maybe even the upper-middle class should even probably be cut further. But I think that people at the high end - people like myself - should be paying a lot more in taxes. We have it better than we've ever had it. - Warren Buffett

So in other words: she's in good company with her opinion.
 

Kara Spengler

Queer OccupyE9 Sluni-Goon
Sep 20, 2018
1,459
SL: November RL: DC
Thing is, I don't care how much money an older person has managed to save away or whatever, it more depends on what they DO. My mom is worth a good bit now, but she donated time and money to help others, and has a unique perspective on just what's wrong with this country; as she puts it, she thinks its wrong that having more money, mostly from investments, that she pays so much less in taxes than we do.
Yes, until people talked about it on here I did not even know he had not released them yet. The funny thing is everyone complains the elections get earlier every year then also complains when candidates do not have all their i's dotted and t's crossed well in advance.

Completely agree with what matters is what they have done. While he and donnie are in the same age bracket it is pretty clear Bernie has done more to help others and to serve. I am sure maga types will point to donnie's former "charity" .... however note the quote marks.

Of course, if Sanders has not released them he should and by about the same time as everyone else (whenever that is). If the reason is something like his wife's earnings or his age just attach a statement about that. After what donnie is pulling with not releasing them doing the same would be political suicide.
 

Kara Spengler

Queer OccupyE9 Sluni-Goon
Sep 20, 2018
1,459
SL: November RL: DC
Umm, how does the president get to decide who gets to host debates?

AFAIK the 2 major parties are independent organizations, did something change? They (and the candidates) can partner with whoever they wish to host the primary debates. If that means faux hosts all the R primary debates and the young turks all the D ones so be it. The general election debates are more controlled by the FEC, but even then the 2 parties both have a say.
 

Veritable Quandry

Specializing in derails and train wrecks.
Sep 19, 2018
552
Columbus, OH
As much as I like Brown, given the crowded field and that his replacement would be a Republic appointment it is a good call.
 

Innula Zenovka

Nasty Brit
VVO Supporter 🍦🎈👾❤
Sep 20, 2018
1,355
Of course, if Sanders has not released them he should and by about the same time as everyone else (whenever that is). If the reason is something like his wife's earnings or his age just attach a statement about that. After what donnie is pulling with not releasing them doing the same would be political suicide.
Apparently Hillary Clinton released her tax returns covering 2007 to 2014 in July 2015 (she'd already released 8 years' worth, I think, during her previous attempt to gain the Democratic nomination) and then released her tax returns for 2015 in August 2016.

Hillary releases 8 years of tax returns
In An Effort To Pressure Trump, Clinton Releases 2015 Tax Returns

So he's now some two or three years behind Hillary Clinton, at least, in releasing his tax returns relating to his previous nomination attempt.

In the present contest, I know Elizabeth Warren's tax returns are online here.

He's apparently said he's going to ten years' worth of tax returns "sooner rather than later" but I don't quite understand his argument that he and his wife don't have armies of accountants working for them. I mean, presumably most of those ten years' returns must have been long since finalised, must they not?