Democratic Party Presidential Candidates for 2020

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Cristalle

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a lot of stuff
Not wasting a lot of time here, but:

1) I reguarly take time to reason with people, but it's obviously wasted in a number of instances so I'm not going to bother getting too deep. It takes a lot before I start casting shade at anyone, and it always comes after someone (and there are only a couple of people I can think of offhand that pushed me to that point) gets really rude. I try to stay focused on the ideas and not personalities. Even now, I restrain myself.

2) I can understand the point of view regarding what Tulsi was doing (a gotcha) and I thought it was reaching. You take a harsher stance on it. Whatever. But they've been pushing cheap shots at her so I guess they're square now.

3) Jimmy Dore. I don't come into this with a long history of watching him. I wasn't aware of anything about him and Seth Rich or the Vegas Shooter and a cursory google search doesn't deliver a whole hell of a lot. I only started this past year listening to YouTube like radio. In the year or so that I've been listening, I haven't heard anything like that so I'm curious to know what he ACTUALLY said before I render any judgment. But on a whole lot of other issues, he's right. That broken clock is right more than twice a day. I don't always agree with him but I appreciate hearing a dissenting voice since it's missing in mainstream media. So yeah, to me, he was just one guy with his own opinions. Or, in his words, "a jagoff nightclub comedian who makes videos out of his garage."
 

Salome

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I reguarly take time to reason with people,
So do I. In fact, I meticulously break down the misinformation, conspiracies, and half-truths you and a handful of others weave in and out of your posts. But you lot ignore all that and cry about civility. Because that‘s all you have when your narratives are disrupted instead of tolerated.

so I'm not going to bother getting too deep.
No kidding.

It takes a lot before I start casting shade at anyone, and it always comes after someone (and there are only a couple of people I can think of offhand that pushed me to that point) gets really rude.
You are so full of shit. Your little routine may fool others, but you can sell it somewhere else. You roll your eyes and call other people’s views “McCarthyism” and take all the usual nutter left shots. Then you act like none of that counts and cry about civility for sympathy. It works on people nicer than me who are uncomfortable with calling people out or get easily exhausted by confrontation, but I see you. Own your shit and stop pretending like you’re the victim just because your way of insulting people doesn't include “crude” words.

Even now, I restrain myself.
Wake me when the paragon of virtue scene is over.

But they've been pushing cheap shots at her so I guess they're square now.
It’s funny how your preferred candidates’ bad behavior is always justified or merely misguided but everyone else is proof they are neoliberal McCarthyist shills in the pocket of evil corporations that want to start wars and eat babies.

3) Jimmy Dore. I don't come into this with a long history of watching him. I wasn't aware of anything about him and Seth Rich or the Vegas Shooter and a cursory google search doesn't deliver a whole hell of a lot.
”I inform myself from sources I don’t know the history of and am going to pretend there isn’t a massive amount of information out there proving he’s a conspiracy grifting huckster because it might make me question the narratives I’ve been parroting.”

In the year or so that I've been listening, I haven't heard anything like that so I'm curious to know what he ACTUALLY said before I render any judgment.
You don’t have any judgement. That’s why you keep falling for propaganda and nonsense and try to make it fit with reality. It’s why you think chaos agents like Tulsi and Jill are worth listening to and Dems are evil.

But on a whole lot of other issues, he's right. That broken clock is right more than twice a day.
Sure he is. Please, do keep making it expressly clear where the propaganda and nonsense you keep spewing is coming from and undermining your own credibility.

I don't always agree with him but I appreciate hearing a dissenting voice since it's missing in mainstream media.
You mocked me for listening to independent journalists and activists and rejecting dudebro mainstream media while you are defending seeking out Jimmy fucking Dore. The level of clownery is epic.

The sad thing is you don’t realize how slanted and tainted everything becomes when you start listening to propaganda outlets and conspiracy mongers. You’re no different from the people who watch Fox News. I can pity you for it, but when you peddle it to others, they are not obligated to treat it with respect or call it anything other than what it is.
 

Cristalle

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That's some funny shit talking about propaganda outlets. The media has a disturbing uniformity that pushes us toward eternal war, and you want to talk to me about propaganda? NBC, CNN and MSNBC have CIA and NSA Spooks selling us war on TV, you want to talk about propaganda?

There are no dissenting voices there. This is how we got lied into war the last time, going into Iraq, which we are still paying trillions of dollars, causing the hugest refugee crisis the world has seen. But it's great for their sponsors, who get paid for war profiteering.

The so-called adults in the room have been turned into being shills for the military industrial complex as a result of partisanship. And tools like you just lap it up.

Fuck yourself with that shit about propaganda. You think you're so woke, but you aren't seeing the forest for the trees. No wonder the fucking Democrats lost a thousand seats at the state and local level over the last decade.
 

Salome

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That's some funny shit talking about propaganda outlets. The media has a disturbing uniformity that pushes us toward eternal war, and you want to talk to me about propaganda? NBC, CNN and MSNBC have CIA and NSA Spooks selling us war on TV, you want to talk about propaganda?
Yeah, the 9/11 truthers and the dudes holding discussions about whether Seth Rich was killed by the Clintons and Pizzagate are real and how Vegas and other events are “false flags” are where the real news is. That’s where we should go to listen to alternate narratives. Not, like, advocates for immigrants and civil rights or boots-on-the-ground journalists.

There are no dissenting voices there. This is how we got lied into war the last time, going into Iraq, which we are still paying trillions of dollars, causing the hugest refugee crisis the world has seen. But it's great for their sponsors, who get paid for war profiteering.
I love how you pretend you’re informing us of something. I‘m not sure if anyone on this forum or in this thread supported the war or would lift a finger to defend it, but as someone that remembers exactly how lonely it was to be against the war while it was happening, this little hissy fit of yours doesn’t work. I spend most of the time on my modest platform highlighting the failures of modern journalism. But I don’t run to conspiracy nutters for validation and I certainly don’t peddle their misinformation to others.

The so-called adults in the room
This is a GOP reference. Are you implying those of us not listening to grifters like Dore are aligned with the GOP? Or have you just absorbed GOP talking points from the faux left and now apply them to everyone that disagrees with you?

...have been turned into being shills for the military industrial complex as a result of partisanship. And tools like you just lap it up.
Yep. That’s me, a shill for the military industrial complex lapping up everything the media tells me. I should really be listening to more conspiracy radio shows to open my mind.

Fuck yourself with that shit about propaganda.
But you’re only being crude like this because I pushed you, right? Not, like, because these little outbursts are lurking under every thinly-veiled dig you take under the guise of civility.

You think you're so woke, but you aren't seeing the forest for the trees.
I don’t call myself woke because I know that label isn’t one I get to assign myself. I’m a problematic work in progress. Like most people.

No wonder the fucking Democrats lost a thousand seats at the state and local level over the last decade.
As someone who has been advocating and fighting voter suppression and Republican vote tampering and other fuckery since it became obvious in 2000 they were operating at a higher level than old school party shenanigans, please understand when you and leftists pretend we lost seats by not being left enough all you’re revealing is how ignorant you are about what the real fight is. This isn’t the dig you think it is. You’re doing the GOP’s work for them by providing alternate narratives to their coordinated attacks on our democracy. You’re helping camouflage what has been going on for over twenty years and undermining left progress. I understand that reality doesn’t let you hate on the Dem base the way the white nationalist narratives you’ve been duped into swallowing have provided you, but it doesn’t afford you any moral high ground with people like me.
 

Cristiano

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Ok I think this may in fact be the first thread I needed to close. Now that Sal has sucked all the oxygen out of the universe, it has come to its natural end as we are all dead. See you on the other side.

I appreciate the difference of views here, but this thread has just become a circular clusterfuck of doom. It's a long way to the primaries, we could all use a break. #GiantMeteor2020
 
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