Democratic Party Presidential Candidates for 2020

Kara Spengler

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The DNC chair now has the ability to simply not let someone run as a Democrat if he doesn't think they've been loyal to the party. It seems likely that Perez and Sanders have already had a talk about this.

There is also the pledge they are now required to sign. They must agree that they will run as a Democrat and serve as a Democrat if elected, which means Sanders can't get the nom and then run as an independent in the general. Sanders has said that he will (or has?) sign it.

Both of these things were clearly aimed at making sure Bernie doesn't run as an independent in the general after winning the primary as a Democrat.
I do not think Bernie has much of a problem with that either way. He is only an independent because the democrats are not progressive enough, if you did not know how he was registered you would just assume he was a D. As to his people the main issue is they meet the state deadlines for changing to the D party in closed primary states and most that were politically active enough to not be listed as a major party are also active enough to change registrations.
 
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Kara Spengler

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Because everyone was not on the Beat Trump at All Costs team, as I hope now we are.
Unfortunately I still do not think the DNC is on that team. If whoever their favoured person is is not polling well they might force the rest of the left to have to roll the hard six because enough people will go with whatever the DNC says.
 

Brenda Archer

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Innula Zenovka

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I do not think Bernie has much of a problem with that either way. He is only an independent because the democrats are not progressive enough, if you did not know how he was registered you would just assume he was a D. As to his people the main issue is they meet the state deadlines for changing to the D party in closed primary states and most that were politically active enough to not be listed as a major party are also active enough to change registrations.
Seems odd to me. If someone broadly agrees with a political party's policies, even though she considers them, generally, too left wing or too right wing in some specifics, then the usual course of action is to join that party and work from the inside on changing policy, as everyone else does.

Parties are, by their nature, broad coalitions representing a wide range of views. No one, I would have thought, expects a particular Democratic candidate to agree with her party's platform in every particular, just as voters generally understand perfectly well that they're voting for the candidate with whom they agree generally rather than in every particular.

Do we know what specific Democratic policy or policies are acceptable to, say, Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez but are so objectionably right-wing to Bernie Sanders that they prevent his joining the Democrats?
 

Kara Spengler

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Why would anyone protest?

Maybe it is because I am from NH, where there seem to be more nuances of what parties people are in than voting adults, but to me the party label next to your name does not mean a whole lot. It is all in how you vote and your views on issues.

Shocker .... Bernie represents that area of the country and he seems to have the same reaction to party labels.
 

Innula Zenovka

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Why would anyone protest?

Maybe it is because I am from NH, where there seem to be more nuances of what parties people are in than voting adults, but to me the party label next to your name does not mean a whole lot. It is all in how you vote and your views on issues.

Shocker .... Bernie represents that area of the country and he seems to have the same reaction to party labels.
As far as I understand it, at least from the Wikipedia article on the subject, Bernie Sanders was endorsed as the Democratic candidate in the Vermont primary elections for the senatorial candidate by an overwhelming majority, but declined the nomination and ran as an Independent.

So what's his principled objection to committing himself to the Democratic Party in Vermont that doesn't also apply to the national party? Clearly he enjoys massive support from registered Democrats in Vermont -- far more than he's likely to enjoy nationally. Why doesn't he want to be affiliated with the local party?

The argument "party labels don't matter" cuts both ways, after all. If they don't matter, then why not join the party that endorses you? It seems rather churlish to seek the endorsement of the national party while declining that of the locals.
 

Kara Spengler

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As far as I understand it, at least from the Wikipedia article on the subject, Bernie Sanders was endorsed as the Democratic candidate in the Vermont primary elections for the senatorial candidate by an overwhelming majority, but declined the nomination and ran as an Independent.

So what's his principled objection to committing himself to the Democratic Party in Vermont that doesn't also apply to the national party? Clearly he enjoys massive support from registered Democrats in Vermont -- far more than he's likely to enjoy nationally. Why doesn't he want to be affiliated with the local party?

The argument "party labels don't matter" cuts both ways, after all. If they don't matter, then why not join the party that endorses you? It seems rather churlish to seek the endorsement of the national party while declining that of the locals.
Like many people in that neck of the woods he is an independent (or at least more progressive than the party average). He is running as a Democrat in the presidential election since the DNC laid down the law for that election but that does not change his fundamental affiliation.
 

Innula Zenovka

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Like many people in that neck of the woods he is an independent (or at least more progressive than the party average). He is running as a Democrat in the presidential election since the DNC laid down the law for that election but that does not change his fundamental affiliation.
But my understanding is that he's not affiliated to anyone -- that's what "independent" means, surely?

Are you suggesting he's adopting the Democratic label for reasons of opportunism rather than principle? That is, he doesn't really consider himself a Democrat, but is prepared to call himself one when he needs to -- for example, to stand any chance of winning the 2020 Presidential elections?

And I still don't understand why he's so unwilling to call himself a Democrat in Vermont. The Vermont Democrats clearly like him a lot. What's he got against them that he hasn't got against the Democrats nationally (other than that he needs the Democratic Party nationally in a way that he clearly doesn't need the state party)?
 

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Unfortunately I still do not think the DNC is on that team. If whoever their favoured person is is not polling well they might force the rest of the left to have to roll the hard six because enough people will go with whatever the DNC says.
I find that hard to fathom but there is a lot I find hard to fathom these days.
 

Kara Spengler

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But my understanding is that he's not affiliated to anyone -- that's what "independent" means, surely?

Are you suggesting he's adopting the Democratic label for reasons of opportunism rather than principle? That is, he doesn't really consider himself a Democrat, but is prepared to call himself one when he needs to -- for example, to stand any chance of winning the 2020 Presidential elections?

And I still don't understand why he's so unwilling to call himself a Democrat in Vermont. The Vermont Democrats clearly like him a lot. What's he got against them that he hasn't got against the Democrats nationally (other than that he needs the Democratic Party nationally in a way that he clearly doesn't need the state party)?
Bernie has long been understood to be on his own path. In order to get elected to the senate the only people that matter to him are his constituents. They do not care what he calls himself, as long as they know he will be a good senator for them. Even though in most civilized countries he would be in whatever the majority left-wing party we do not really have such here and he recognizes that. The Democrats are the closest but by no means are they a progressive party. So he describes himself as an independent (a democratic socialist but I have heard some debate that he is closer to a socialist ic democrat ....... ok, getting off the point I guess) but works for the democrats (votes with them, chairs committees, raises funds, etc).

For the 2020 nomination the DNC put its foot down and declared he would have to run as a Democrat to get their help in the presidential race. I am not clear on the specifics but there must have been some wiggle room on what he could call himself for other races. Nationally, he needs to be a D but locally the people he works for in VT only care about what he does. In fact, it would probably confuse a few people if he ran as anything other than the party they are used to him being in.
 

Innula Zenovka

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Bernie has long been understood to be on his own path. In order to get elected to the senate the only people that matter to him are his constituents. They do not care what he calls himself, as long as they know he will be a good senator for them. Even though in most civilized countries he would be in whatever the majority left-wing party we do not really have such here and he recognizes that. The Democrats are the closest but by no means are they a progressive party. So he describes himself as an independent (a democratic socialist but I have heard some debate that he is closer to a socialist ic democrat ....... ok, getting off the point I guess) but works for the democrats (votes with them, chairs committees, raises funds, etc).
I agree it would be off the point but I have to say that one of the reasons I'm highly suspicious of Bernie Sanders is that I don't think he's so much a socialist as a left-wing populist, not unlike our Jeremy Corbyn and his Corbynista cult, who are one of the reasons the Labour Party are having such difficulties.

I've recently finished reading Corbynism: A Critical Approach, a left-wing analysis and critique of Corbyn and his policies, and the authors make some very persuasive points about how close Bernie Sanders, Steve Bannon, and Jeremy Corbyn all seem to be in many points of their understanding (which the authors would say is oversimplified and unhistorical) both of capitalism and social relationships within capitalism and of nature and role of the nation state.

These, I would stress, are not simply academic criticisms. Portraying modern capitalist relationships simply as an innocent system that's been hijacked and forced to serve the interests of a corrupt and selfish "few" or "one percent" or elite of globalists and international capitalists , which simply needs to be brought under the control of the nation state, to work fairly on behalf of the many, or the 99%, or whatever, leads to very real and, I would say, potentially very undesirable political consequences.