Democratic Party Presidential Candidates for 2020

[NyteWytch]

Ultimately I really only feel Aeon Jiminy is here to spread dissension (sorry buddy the timing and delivery has always been suspect). I don't dislike anyone here and honestly appreciate differing viewpoints (whether I agree or not).

Over many of the years with SLU and now VVO, many posters have added dimension to things I had not thought of or outright disagreed with. Han Held I've always had a soft spot for your posts and opinions, please dont feel attacked by my eyerolls XD. Cristalle While I certainly don't agree with your points, I do commend you on having the guts to continually share your viewpoints in "hostile" territory.

I would hope here and in everyday life we as "liberals, leftists, socialists, etc" can come together and foster some camaraderie in these shitty times.


That's all the positive pollyanna I have in me for this fiscal year!

 

[Anya Ristow]

Some of the links that have been provided in this thread are clearly of the alt-right sort.

Which ones? Specifically?

 

[Han Held]

Han Held I've always had a soft spot for your posts and opinions, please dont feel attacked by my eyerolls XD.

no worries -i have to admit that I could have done a far better job of citation and making my point. I'm just burned out and didn't feel like there was a point.

I would hope here and in everyday life we as "liberals, leftists, socialists, etc" can come together and foster some camaraderie in these shitty times.

Here, here.

 

[Spirits Rising]

Alot of that goin' round, Mr Pot.

Ah yes, because I have nothing better to do than go around and around with people who refuse to see anything that did not originate in their own minds ...

Fuck off with that bullshit.

Nor are you, in all honesty.

I've made my views known over the course of several threads and frankly have not seen anything in this thread worth "discussing" more than it already has been, by users who are actually capable of listening to more than the inside of their own minds.

A few here already made their minds up where the varied candidates are concerned and refuse to so much as entertain any ideas outside of their personal comfort zones.

Yes yes, this goes several ways - I'm simply sick and tired of empty idealism.

It's a specifically centrist narrative to attack leftists (specifically Bernie supporting leftists) as either being alt right, or carrying water for same.

It's another form of the horseshoe theory -which is fallacious.

quoth wikipedia

Emphasis mine.

Oh for fuck sake ... the above two quotes alone showcase exactly the sort of bullshit thinking I've been talking about ....

Everyone's out to get your candidates, blah de fucking blah ... It has nothing whatsoever to do with any point on the political spectrum and everything to do with cold, hard reality.

Keep your head in the clouds if you'd like to but don't expect others to do the same.

 

[Essence Lumin]

A parable

A small excerpt from -

Brian Bull's DAY OF THE BARNEY

"Hello, all my friends out there! I'm so happy you could make it to my special concert. Have I told you lately how much I love you?" Children world-wide simultaneously burst, "I love you too, Barney!" The Purple One giggled and for a moment appeared to blush. "Love is such a wonderful thing. Especially the love you and I share for each other. I also want you to know how much of a special friend you are to me. Are you my friend also?"
The response was thunderous, rising from the kids in the plaza, across the living rooms scattered across the nation.
"YES!!!"
"Well, that's wonderful!" reeled Barney. "But do you know what, kids? I have something really, really sad to tell you." He sighed, letting his immense, dead eyes roll to the floor. "Not everyone is Barney's friend....some people don't even want you to be my friend."
Protests and cries began to rise collectively within the entranced mass. The Beast of Purple quieted them with a raise of his hand. He continued: "There are people who don't want me to love you, and want to take you away from me. These people are very bad, and want to hurt your loving friend Barney. Some of them may be people who are very close to you. But do you know what?"
The audience of children silently yet anxiously awaited the answer. An unholy stillness had fallen upon the crowd. Many of the adults began to feel isolated, targeted.....unwelcome.
"None of them, not a single one, loves you as much as I do. I'm your only real friend in the world. I really love you, I do! But these bad people don't. Some of them may be your neighbors. Some of them may be your teachers. And some of them....."
"Who, Barney, who?!?" shrieked a young girl from a barricade. "...some of them may be _your_ parents!"
Immediately the children began yelling and crying, their teeth and fists clenched in rage. Security guards who had been trying to keep the children back behind the lines began to fidget uneasily, as the sea of wide-eyed, growling, gurgling children began rising against them. Some guards broke from the line and ran down the street, screaming hysterically. Others tried to push the youngsters back but were pulled in by grasping, clawing hands. The cries were horrible.
One guard, as he was being simultaneously crushed and pulled apart by the mindless horde, looked back upon the stage. The Purple One and his green sidekick were laughing and dancing demonically about the platform, which was now spattered with blood and torn clothing. Next moment the world went dark and the guard was lost forever amidst the torrent of violence and unholy chanting...
I love you, you love me.....let me have your family.....with a quick stab or kick, we'll set the children free....don't you know you were meant for me.....

 

[Han Held]

Keep your head in the clouds if you'd like to but don't expect others to do the same.

What on earth possesses you to think I care or would even bother to read your opinion -much less follow your advice?

Who the fuck do you believe that you are?

 

[Spirits Rising]

Look folks, I'm simply sick and tired of the back and forth bickering and bullshit. From where Im sitting, at least one user here has utterly ignored the actual content of some responses in favor of some internal narrative or is conflating posts/meanings/intentions between different posters.

I get worked up over and frankly hate that kind of shit.

Much the same with what comes off as empty/mindless optimism/ideology.

If you're not going to work for what can actually be achieved - be it directly relate to your personal goals/ideas or not - then as far I see it, you don't give a tin shit.

Some of the policies espoused by several of the current candidates I'd love to see come to fruition: UBI, Medicare For All being two of them. The reality however is that these are unlikely to be attainable until close to the end of my own lifetime. Lay the groundwork? Sure, go right ahead. Just don't pretend it's gonna happen any time soon.

 

[Spirits Rising]

What on earth possesses you to think I care or would even bother to read your opinion -much less follow your advice?

Who the fuck do you believe that you are?

Oh for fuck sake ... and just who do you think you are then, hmm?

 

[Han Held]

What on earth possesses you to think I care or would even bother to read your opinion -much less follow your advice?

Who the fuck do you believe that you are?

Let me give some context to this for you in the peanut gallery. This asshole joins SLU, posts borderline flamage, rationalizes his flaming as stress relief, and then for several years hassles me with the rolleyes reaction button.

Years.

Then he comes up with the shit I referred to above.

So yeah -on the list of folks I'd ever listen to, he's damned near the bottom -along with nina and bubba.

And there's a reason for that.

 

[Han Held]

Oh for fuck sake ... and just who do you think you are then, hmm?

I know who I am ...to myself, and to you.

Which is why your opinion [ETA]and advice [/ETA] means fuck all to me.

 

[Spirits Rising]

I have never read anything more wrong or laughable in my life ...

Whatever helps you sleep at night I suppose.

You're not the only person I've rolled my virtual eyes at and bluntly put there is no special meaning behind it - contrary to what you seem to believe. And that's just the tip of the bloody iceberg.

 

[Han Held]

I have never read anything more wrong or laughable in my life ...

Whatever helps you sleep at night I suppose.

Does denying that you badger folks for years help you sleep at night? Good for you, then, I guess.

I know -from what you posted on SLU, that people on the internet are no more real to you than they are to Nina. You've said it yourself.

You've also said that you flame for catharsis -people aren't real, so who gives a rip?

Are you going to deny that, too?

I know who I am to you ...nothing, nada, a cardboard cutout to flame when you're feeling stressy.

I'm fine with that.

I'm fine with that because since that's how it is, you're that to me as well.

 

[Cristalle]

Look folks, I'm simply sick and tired of the back and forth bickering and bullshit. From where Im sitting, at least one user here has utterly ignored the actual content of some responses in favor of some internal narrative or is conflating posts/meanings/intentions between different posters.

I get worked up over and frankly hate that kind of shit.

Part of your problem is that you take a lot of shit far too personally.

Much the same with what comes off as empty/mindless optimism/ideology.

If you're not going to work for what can actually be achieved - be it directly relate to your personal goals/ideas or not - then as far I see it, you don't give a tin shit.

Some of the policies espoused by several of the current candidates I'd love to see come to fruition: UBI, Medicare For All being two of them. The reality however is that these are unlikely to be attainable until close to the end of my own lifetime. Lay the groundwork? Sure, go right ahead. Just don't pretend it's gonna happen any time soon.

And, substantively speaking, this is really irritating too. This narrative, that people are immature, pie-in-the-sky idiots is both simultaneously condescending and obtuse, another convenient smear by the Clinton camp.

Most of us already know that policy changes don't happen overnight. For you and your ilk to just assume that we don't is condescending and obtuse.

What we recognize is that you have to have the right people in place to move those policy balls forward. Most of the people running in this race will not move those policy balls forward. Some of them are honest about it, some of them are frauds. The stakes are extremely high and yeah, we have real urgency about it. We know it takes work, that's why we are out building a movement. We're doing the necessary work. You may be privileged enough and content to see those policies come to fruition at the end of your lifetime, but we are not. We know what we are up against, and sadly it includes small thinkers like you.

Obviously, this race is not the only race that matters. Hundreds of races matter, getting people in place who will be responsive to the electorate, which has a strong majority favoring some of those policy issues. But this race is the most key because it has veto power over anything that a Congress presents to it and we want that right person in place, and we are willing to go to the mat for it. Sorry if your preferred candidate doesn't inspire that same vigor.

 

[Spirits Rising]

Does denying that you badger folks for years help you sleep at night? Good for you, then, I guess.

I know -from what you posted on SLU, that people on the internet are no more real to you than they are to Nina. You've said it yourself.

You've also said that you flame for catharsis -people aren't real, so who gives a rip?

Are you going to deny that, too?

I know who I am to you ...nothing, nada, a cardboard cutout to flame when you're feeling stressy.

I'm fine with that.

I'm fine with that because since that's how it is, you're that to me as well.

Where the ever loving fuck did you get the idea that I don't care, that people on the internet aren't real to me? Seriously? I've railed against people who try to weild their supposed experience as a weapon (where and when it crops up) and made no bones about my tone or why I am so quick to "flame" others.

You're "fine" with a dynamic that simply does not exist.

Fuck sake ... I do not agree with your politics (or the way they come off) and that is all there is to it.

Sure, I'm quick to judge when it seems you - or anyone else - is acting on too optimistic or lofty and ideology but frankly speaking ... I learned the hard way that all such a thing does is disappoint. I'd rather stick to what I can get/achieve than wish for it all and get next to nothing.

 

[Spirits Rising]

Part of your problem is that you take a lot of shit far too personally.


And, substantively speaking, this is really irritating too. This narrative, that people are immature, pie-in-the-sky idiots is both simultaneously condescending and obtuse, another convenient smear by the Clinton camp.

Most of us already know that policy changes don't happen overnight. For you and your ilk to just assume that we don't is condescending and obtuse.

What we recognize is that you have to have the right people in place to move those policy balls forward. Most of the people running in this race will not move those policy balls forward. Some of them are honest about it, some of them are frauds. The stakes are extremely high and yeah, we have real urgency about it. We know it takes work, that's why we are out building a movement. We're doing the necessary work. You may be privileged enough and content to see those policies come to fruition at the end of your lifetime, but we are not. We know what we are up against, and sadly it includes small thinkers like you.

Obviously, this race is not the only race that matters. Hundreds of races matter, getting people in place who will be responsive to the electorate, which has a strong majority favoring some of those policy issues. But this race is the most key because it has veto power over anything that a Congress presents to it and we want that right person in place, and we are willing to go to the mat for it. Sorry if your preferred candidate doesn't inspire that same vigor.

There's that conflation again .... I am in no "camp" and to assume that anyone else is either ...

And again with that narrative. "Small thinkers" - seriously?

Bah whatever ... You believe you're in the right, that those who don't espouse your particular beliefs are not only in the wrong but holding you back and rather quick to use labels that frankly are so mismatched as to be in a whole other Universe.

If you do not mean to come across in such a manner - fine. Bear in mind that's how you're coming across.

 

[Soen Eber]

My personal theory is that, in efforts to dig up dirt on any candidate other than Bernie, Tulsi or others who have no chance, they ended up at alt-right leaning sites. Lie with dogs, get fleas.

This does make a certain kind of sense. Although I haven't looked for any evidence, it's a reasonable disinformation strategy on the theoretical level which makes it easy enough to accidentally drink the koolaid. The end result is dissension and friends (if only in spirit) attacking friends.

I'm not saying yay or nay, yes or no because I haven't thought to look for any evidence of this - but both civil society and the left ARE under attack, so we have to assume until we know otherwise that tactic is being used against us (with us being a broad spectrum of "the west" in general, the U.S., accoutability, and Democrats. It is something we have to watch for.

...and I've never known Jolene to go off the deep end.

 

[Cristalle]

This does make a certain kind of sense. Although I haven't looked for any evidence, it's a reasonable disinformation strategy on the theoretical level which makes it easy enough to accidentally drink the koolaid. The end result is dissension and friends (if only in spirit) attacking friends.

I'm not saying yay or nay, yes or no because I haven't thought to look for any evidence of this - but both civil society and the left ARE under attack, so we have to assume until we know otherwise that tactic is being used against us (with us being a broad spectrum of "the west" in general, the U.S., accoutability, and Democrats. It is something we have to watch for.

...and I've never known Jolene to go off the deep end.

Please cite disinformation posted here. I'm really sick of this charge.

 

[Soen Eber]

Oh, and also...


IBTL

 

[Soen Eber]

Please cite disinformation posted here. I'm really sick of this charge.

I never said there was any disinformation, only that the possibility existed and should not be dismissed. Anyways, it was Han who dismissed it, so this does not directly involve you (tangentially, perhaps, but I was addressing Han's specific comment, and nothing that you have said so far):

That's the most moronic thing I've read all day...and I was just reading /r/AskReddit !

This is the comment I was indirectly reacting to.

 

[Katheryne Helendale]

Part of your problem is that you take a lot of shit far too personally.


And, substantively speaking, this is really irritating too. This narrative, that people are immature, pie-in-the-sky idiots is both simultaneously condescending and obtuse, another convenient smear by the Clinton camp.

Most of us already know that policy changes don't happen overnight. For you and your ilk to just assume that we don't is condescending and obtuse.

What we recognize is that you have to have the right people in place to move those policy balls forward. Most of the people running in this race will not move those policy balls forward. Some of them are honest about it, some of them are frauds. The stakes are extremely high and yeah, we have real urgency about it. We know it takes work, that's why we are out building a movement. We're doing the necessary work. You may be privileged enough and content to see those policies come to fruition at the end of your lifetime, but we are not. We know what we are up against, and sadly it includes small thinkers like you.

Obviously, this race is not the only race that matters. Hundreds of races matter, getting people in place who will be responsive to the electorate, which has a strong majority favoring some of those policy issues. But this race is the most key because it has veto power over anything that a Congress presents to it and we want that right person in place, and we are willing to go to the mat for it. Sorry if your preferred candidate doesn't inspire that same vigor.

I don't disagree with what you're saying. I just think that right now our primary focus should be removing Trump from the White House, preferably with someone who can undo some of the damage he has caused and get this country moving in the right direction again. Everything else, right now, is icing on the cake, and completely out of reach if we can't achieve this basic thing.