Democratic Party Presidential Candidates for 2020

[Soen Eber]

Well I'm sure Wall Street is seeing her in *cough* a slightly different *cough* sexy persona. And they ARE NOT EXCITED AT ALL ABOUT IT.

 

[Cristiano]

Bernie Sanders Suffered Heart Attack, Doctors Confirm

The presidential candidate was released from a Vegas hospital where doctors confirmed he was diagnosed with a myocardial infarction, known as a heart attack.

www.huffpost.com

 

[Aribeth Zelin]

Right, I think I'm going to stop engaging someone in this area, who decides who has paid attention based on whether or not they agree, or point out some logic errors.

 

[Romana]

And Bette Midlerr chimes in:
Read some of the replies, too, particularly from Marines.

 

[Brenda Archer]

We might, unfortunately, be at a point where Bernie is washed out by his health.

But there’s a whole movement of people in and out of the Democratic Party who are going to keep pushing for his ideas. If we can recover some semblance of the rule of law, those people can keep up the work.

Dismantling capitalism requires a local ground game and I *will* keep banging that drum because we still have plenty of places where even Dems don’t locally run, never mind leftists.

The only way the federal government could be used to push the rural counties to the left is to find a way to bring the Senate closer to majority rule. And it’s not just the favoring of rural states. It’s also gerrymandering and insecure voting machines and propaganda and the whole machine of lying and skullduggery because we don’t have the rule of law in a minority government.

The Republicans feel *entitled* to minority rule.

One thing a Dem Congress should do ASAP is make DC a state.

 

[Brenda Archer]

Nothing I have cited in my own words is a "conspiracy theory." I've cited her votes for the bloated military budget. Her crazy vote for Ben Carson. Her failure to address Standing Rock. Her waffling on Medicare for all. That's her record. It's not "mud." There's no perfect politician, but this is a primary and now is the time to put forth the best person.

And none of those videos traffic in conspiracy theories. Everything discusses something reported in mainstream media, such as the New York Times or Washington Post, or CNN. They typically will tell you where they saw the news item. That's just a convenient smear.

She’s certainly flawed but really, Sanders is too, just in different ways. I still lean to Sanders but it’s knowing he’s flawed. (I’m local, I’ve been following him for years.) If something happens to him, there are still all the supporters, many of them less online than we are.

I just don’t have the time or energy for YouTubes, podcasts or anything lacking a transcript. It’s a huge effort for me to listen to something for 20 minutes. If they have a primary source, they can link it at the beginning. The commentary doesn’t matter to me.

 

[Innula Zenovka]

That crazed child fantasist Jacob Wohl has apparently been at it again, with predictable results:


The thread and comments are worth reading for a chuckle.

 

[Cristalle]

I missed Cristalle's (or anyone's) posts about Tulsi. I don't know where she stands on a lot of issues. The one issue I am more than a little impressed with of hers is to majorly scale down the military and work for world peace. If that is on the radar at all with Bernie or Elizabeth it is minimal.

I didn't know much about her before I started this thread, and I had shared some videos of interviews that she did. And then there was a big smear about her with the lgbtq community that seems to have had a particularly effective impact. Among other smears. I didn't believe them and defended her, even though she was not my first choice. If you use the search bar and specify this thread, you will find every post. If you care to find out her policy positions, you will need to find good interviews where she can actually discuss her policies, like the ones in here that she did with Jimmy Dore or her interview with Joe Rogan on his podcast. Most mainstream media interviews try to dwell on the smears.

 

[Cristalle]

She’s certainly flawed but really, Sanders is too, just in different ways. I still lean to Sanders but it’s knowing he’s flawed. (I’m local, I’ve been following him for years.) If something happens to him, there are still all the supporters, many of them less online than we are.

I just don’t have the time or energy for YouTubes, podcasts or anything lacking a transcript. It’s a huge effort for me to listen to something for 20 minutes. If they have a primary source, they can link it at the beginning. The commentary doesn’t matter to me.

There isn't a perfect candidate, I wish that Bernie was stronger on foreign policy in particular, even though he has improved in this area since last time. His leadership on trying to stop our complicity in Yemen and speaking out against Israeli abuse of Palestinian human rights is a significant difference between him and the rest of the Democratic field, for the most part. And he is the only one who has voted against Trump's military budget expansion. And yet there is more that he should do, ways to improve.

I have already explained that I have been listening to YouTube like radio. I don't expect people to do the same. But I had expected better than people merely commenting on a headline when the actual discussion was more substantial.

Regarding your other post, Warren said that she is a "capitalist to her bones." She's not here to dismantle capitalism. That's not who you want, if the theory of change matters.

 

[Free]

Finally, something worth watching on the youtubes!

 

[Katheryne Helendale]

Get some, Liz!

 

[danielravennest]

Dismantling capitalism requires a local ground game and I *will* keep banging that drum because we still have plenty of places where even Dems don’t locally run, never mind leftists.

It isn't capitalism per se that is the problem. It is pretty good at producing things people want and doing it more efficiently. As Marx put it the problem is "extraction of surplus value by the owning class for the purpose of capital accumulation". In other words, skimming off the top from what the workers do. And it isn't a US-only problem. It seems to be going on in multiple countries. The graph is the percentage of national wealth held by the top 10%

So it seems the goal should be sharing the fruits of capitalism more fairly. There are lots of ways we could do that - raise tax rates at the upper end, reinstate the inheritance tax, an excise tax on financial assets, etc.

 

[Han Held]

Warren said that she is a "capitalist to her bones."

Screw that noise.

I disagree that capitalism isn't the problem. Capitalism is inherently the problem. It's the motivating factor for tearing apart the social safety net, it's the motivation for tearing apart the public educational system, and it's the motivation for undoing many of the protections we (rightfully) take for granted.

We're going to keep getting boned hard and deep until we have a government that's willing to face up to that, instead of simply lining up to the trough.

 

[GoblinCampFollower]

Screw that noise.

I disagree that capitalism isn't the problem. Capitalism is inherently the problem. It's the motivating factor for tearing apart the social safety net, it's the motivation for tearing apart the public educational system, and it's the motivation for undoing many of the protections we (rightfully) take for granted.

We're going to keep getting boned hard and deep until we have a government that's willing to face up to that, instead of simply lining up to the trough.

I view capitalism as the firebox of a steam engine. It produces vast amounts of power, but it's not your friend. It needs to be kept in a strong steel box and watched.

Libertarians and republicans will try to justify uncontrolled capitalism by pointing to times and places where they completely shut down their economy like fools. Republicans actually seem to think that we have to bend over for corporations or else the economy will shut down. It's not at all a contradiction to both allow free enterprise, and also not agree to be their prison bitches.

 

[Brenda Archer]

There isn't a perfect candidate, I wish that Bernie was stronger on foreign policy in particular, even though he has improved in this area since last time. His leadership on trying to stop our complicity in Yemen and speaking out against Israeli abuse of Palestinian human rights is a significant difference between him and the rest of the Democratic field, for the most part. And he is the only one who has voted against Trump's military budget expansion. And yet there is more that he should do, ways to improve.

I have already explained that I have been listening to YouTube like radio. I don't expect people to do the same. But I had expected better than people merely commenting on a headline when the actual discussion was more substantial.

Regarding your other post, Warren said that she is a "capitalist to her bones." She's not here to dismantle capitalism. That's not who you want, if the theory of change matters.

The first thing I want is the rule of law, we can’t even move in the direction of social democracy without it. We certainly can’t protect forms of production that aren’t owned by the corporations without it. We can’t have redistribution in a still basically capitalist society without it.

It’s not a “smear” to raise concerns about Gabbard and conversion therapy. That’s an absolute hard line no go for a lot of left wing voters. Nothing but a detailed, public explanation that she understands the problem will really suffice. Being dragged along by the tide of general Dem progress isn’t enough to show this level of understanding.

I view all politicians who are in conservative religions with an extra measure of distrust. They have to show they’re willing to disagree with religious leaders and beliefs if it’s necessary to support human rights.

 

[Cristalle]

The first thing I want is the rule of law, we can’t even move in the direction of social democracy without it. We certainly can’t protect forms of production that aren’t owned by the corporations without it. We can’t have redistribution in a still basically capitalist society without it.

It’s not a “smear” to raise concerns about Gabbard and conversion therapy. That’s an absolute hard line no go for a lot of left wing voters. Nothing but a detailed, public explanation that she understands the problem will really suffice. Being dragged along by the tide of general Dem progress isn’t enough to show this level of understanding.

I view all politicians who are in conservative religions with an extra measure of distrust. They have to show they’re willing to disagree with religious leaders and beliefs if it’s necessary to support human rights.

I agree about wanting rule of law.

As for Gabbard: I have no problem with people scrutinizing her record. I do have a problem with the record being cherry picked to raise the specter of something that she has apologized for repeatedly and backs up with a rock solid voting record. I feel like there is honestly nothing she can say to convince some people that she isn't anti-gay, even if she cut herself in public.

She is in a religious minority. She was being raised as Catholic and has obviously rejected her father's faith and went to Hinduism. Her household was conservative but she's had her own experiences that made her change. I would like to think that that's what we want from conservatives!

 

[Han Held]

I'm thinking we're going to need to fix the Senate if we're going to do anything serious about the rule of law.

Just sayin'

 

[Cristalle]

Biden needs to drop out. Trump is going to own him.

 

[Anya Ristow]

Beto O'rourke, when the press tried to use him to take a stab at Bernie Sanders, instead turned out to be a class act...

 

[Brenda Archer]

I agree about wanting rule of law.

As for Gabbard: I have no problem with people scrutinizing her record. I do have a problem with the record being cherry picked to raise the specter of something that she has apologized for repeatedly and backs up with a rock solid voting record. I feel like there is honestly nothing she can say to convince some people that she isn't anti-gay, even if she cut herself in public.

She is in a religious minority. She was being raised as Catholic and has obviously rejected her father's faith and went to Hinduism. Her household was conservative but she's had her own experiences that made her change. I would like to think that that's what we want from conservatives!

Some things burn bridges.

Conversion therapy is a whole new level. If someone didn’t support full marriage rights and later apologized, I’d probably forgive. But with conversion therapy that’s not enough. Understand, we’re talking about dead people and violent child abuse.

Being in a religious minority isn’t enough by itself to get my sympathy. There are liberal versions of every major religion - and then there are the hard Right versions. I scrutinize those. It’s simply a matter of survival as a non-straight woman.

And unfortunately right now - we’re not getting a lot of news about this - Hindutva appears to be responsible for religious supremacy, religious fascism and violence in Kashmir.

I can’t get through the paywall but:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/asia_pacific/us-senator-blocked-from-visiting-kashmir-as-crackdown-enters-third-month/2019/10/04/63790b18-e6bf-11e9-b0a6-3d03721b85ef_story.html?outputType=amp

*Every* major religion is capable of getting drunk with power and committing genocide. This is another area where slogans and votes are not enough, only clear explanations will work. I’m even harder on right wing Christians, as far as I’m concerned they’re canceled.