Democratic Party Presidential Candidates for 2020

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Aribeth Zelin

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Because I don't trust her, based on her own actions. I've said it before and I'll say it again. I feel like she would end up being another Obama, and that's not a good thing.

....

These things have nothing to do with her being a woman. They are not double standards I'd hold for men, like carping about her voice or her clothing. She's not the worst candidate out there, not by a mile. However, we have a better candidate.
So, there is no good reason for the pages and pages of videos that proport to compare Warren and Sanders, but really are varying degrees of mud slinging, against one of the better candidates, that you've posted? I don't recall a single one you've posted slinging mud at Biden, or any other candidate. Now, considering there are other candidates that are women, then it would indicate, your real issue is that Warren is the best chance against Sanders, and so instead of actually pointing out all the reasons why Bernie would be a good choice, you're too busy focusing on attacking another candidate.

This is where I'm going to mention why I've not voted for a member of the GOP on anything past the local level, in about 25 years. Its because I do not vote for mudslingers. The only thing in Bernie's defense here is, all the mudslingers seem to be people like you, and not anyone in his campaign.
 

Cristalle

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I really think that every President enters office and learns how limited their power really is and how that changing course is like trying to turn around a battle ship with paddles.

Trump came to office wanting to do very bad things, so thank god he is getting blocked by a plethora of law that is in place to stop idiots in power. I still think Obama had ambitions to do great things, but also found how much law was in the way. The difference is that Obama didn't make a huge show of him fighting reality.

In particular, Obama did NOT have the power to just close Guantanamo on a whim. I believe he tried, but got knocked down. And every credible source says that anti immigration enforcement exploded under Trump, because Obama just followed the law, while Trump is doing everything to push even further.

Obama was no revolutionary, but I don't think it's fair to blame him much for not being able to single handedly fix everything. Let's not forget all he did accomplish. So much of why Trump seems nightmarish is because Trump is undoing many of the good things that happened under Obama, like the Paris Climate Accord, the Iran Nuclear deal, and LGBT rights.
I'm not saying it was all bad. I am saying that the legacy is much more complex and a lot of people are in denial about it. There are things where he did have decisive power - namely the wars, but also ICE - that deserve more critique. People have been crying about press freedom under Trump but gloss over what Obama was doing. Same thing with the border. Although he wasn't separating families, those facilities were terrible and overpriced and kids were still sleeping on the floors. And we were just hoodwinked into giving them MORE money!

I temper my feelings knowing that he did not have a lot of power once control of Congress was gone, but what i distinctly feel is that he compromised himself. And it reflects in his cabinet choices, and how he responded to certain crises and events.
 

Cristalle

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So, there is no good reason for the pages and pages of videos that proport to compare Warren and Sanders, but really are varying degrees of mud slinging, against one of the better candidates, that you've posted? I don't recall a single one you've posted slinging mud at Biden, or any other candidate. Now, considering there are other candidates that are women, then it would indicate, your real issue is that Warren is the best chance against Sanders, and so instead of actually pointing out all the reasons why Bernie would be a good choice, you're too busy focusing on attacking another candidate.

This is where I'm going to mention why I've not voted for a member of the GOP on anything past the local level, in about 25 years. Its because I do not vote for mudslingers. The only thing in Bernie's defense here is, all the mudslingers seem to be people like you, and not anyone in his campaign.
Translation: la la la la sticking fingers in your ears. Because you haven't paid attention to anything I've said anyway.
 

Aeon Jiminy

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I don’t get this painting of Clinton as someone with too much “ambition.”

In fact that’s an example of a complaint aimed at female leaders but not at male ones.

Clinton was by far and away the most experienced candidate for the Predidency. She was too far to the right for a lot of us, but that doesn’t mean she had “too much ambition.” If no woman had run that year, the public debates about women in politics would have simply been postponed.

There is no way out of this conflict. Clinton absorbed some of the impact of it, making a candidate like Warren possible.
Nice twist of my words. I never said "too much ambition". I said "reflect on more than ambition". There's a difference.

Clinton started out heading a Task Force for National Health Care Reform. By the time she was campaigning for President in 2016, she was pretty empty on policy for the average person. "I'm With Her" ? No, I'm with what she used to be ... Med4All. I was reflecting that perhaps if she had taken time to think about what the people wanted over what she wanted, she might have been the right person to finish what she started.

I was once a very big Clinton enthusiast. I cheered her Senate win and supported her as Secretary of State. She didn't win me over the Obama campaign in her first Presidential race. It was never about being a woman with me... that's somebody else's crap.

I guess I see things in a different way. If Clinton makes Warren possible, she also makes Amy Klobuchar, Kamala Harris, Tulsi Gabbard, and Marianne Williamson possible. Let's not focus only on the white Christian women. It's offensive.
 

Brenda Archer

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Nice twist of my words. I never said "too much ambition". I said "reflect on more than ambition". There's a difference.

Clinton started out heading a Task Force for National Health Care Reform. By the time she was campaigning for President in 2016, she was pretty empty on policy for the average person. "I'm With Her" ? No, I'm with what she used to be ... Med4All. I was reflecting that perhaps if she had taken time to think about what the people wanted over what she wanted, she might have been the right person to finish what she started.

I was once a very big Clinton enthusiast. I cheered her Senate win and supported her as Secretary of State. She didn't win me over the Obama campaign in her first Presidential race. It was never about being a woman with me... that's somebody else's crap.

I guess I see things in a different way. If Clinton makes Warren possible, she also makes Amy Klobuchar, Kamala Harris, Tulsi Gabbard, and Marianne Williamson possible. Let's not focus only on the white Christian women. It's offensive.
This is really uncalled for. I was an early supporter of Harris, who you guys didn’t like anyway, and was talking about Warren because she’s one of the two front runners left who can compete with Biden.

In fact I posted on why I thought the Harris candidacy was lagging.

You cannot get me to support Gabbard, and I’ve posted about why she’s not a reliable candidate for LGBTO voters. You cannot get me to support Williamson, the disability community rightly identified her as a risk to us.

But you want Bernie to do things the President doesn’t have the power to do, and for as long as McConnell controls the Senate, literally no one has the power to do.

Our system is broken because the Senate and Electoral College are not representative, so there is no electing a king to magically fix it all. The President is only one of co-equal branches. Electing either Sanders or Warren while McConnell controls the Senate works out the same. Can we not see what Obama was dealing with?

So much of what’s really important in government is happening at the state level and in most states the Dems are the only party with a credible ground game and until that changes I’m going to vote Dem. Because it’s still true that as a person with serious illness, the Republicans are trying to kill me and the Democrats are not.
 

Brenda Archer

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Translation: la la la la sticking fingers in your ears. Because you haven't paid attention to anything I've said anyway.
I haven’t been watching all those YouTubes you’re posting. I really don’t have the hours it would take. There are other, readable articles that succinctly outline what Sanders wants to do.

And when I did take the time to look at the YouTubes, they were poorly referenced and borderline conspiracy theory, this is why I stay away from political YouTube. It’s hours of effort I just don’t have the energy for.

If the Dems finally get both the House and Senate, large amounts of change are possible regardless of whether Sanders or Warren are President. They are both unlikely to veto progressive legislation and they are both unlikely to further damage the executive branch the way Trump has done.

I don’t do conspiracy theory. There are no secrets about Warren that haven’t made it to Twitter and the blogosphere by now, especially in the Native press that has been examining her really closely, without the conspiracy theory.
 

Cristalle

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I haven’t been watching all those YouTubes you’re posting. I really don’t have the hours it would take. There are other, readable articles that succinctly outline what Sanders wants to do.

And when I did take the time to look at the YouTubes, they were poorly referenced and borderline conspiracy theory, this is why I stay away from political YouTube. It’s hours of effort I just don’t have the energy for.

If the Dems finally get both the House and Senate, large amounts of change are possible regardless of whether Sanders or Warren are President. They are both unlikely to veto progressive legislation and they are both unlikely to further damage the executive branch the way Trump has done.

I don’t do conspiracy theory. There are no secrets about Warren that haven’t made it to Twitter and the blogosphere by now, especially in the Native press that has been examining her really closely, without the conspiracy theory.
Nothing I have cited in my own words is a "conspiracy theory." I've cited her votes for the bloated military budget. Her crazy vote for Ben Carson. Her failure to address Standing Rock. Her waffling on Medicare for all. That's her record. It's not "mud." There's no perfect politician, but this is a primary and now is the time to put forth the best person.

And none of those videos traffic in conspiracy theories. Everything discusses something reported in mainstream media, such as the New York Times or Washington Post, or CNN. They typically will tell you where they saw the news item. That's just a convenient smear.
 
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Beebo Brink

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Honestly, Cristalle, you lost me way back, months ago, with the weird dissonance of promoting Gabbard at every turn, but slamming Obama and Warren as somehow untenable. That just does not compute. Whatever it is you're looking for in a candidate, it has no relationship to anything I'm looking for. That's not going to change for either one of us, so we will probably continue to squabble (because internet), but we're obviously way too far apart to reach any accord.

Back to my popcorn. Would you like a fresh bag, too?
 
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Honestly, Cristalle, you lost me way back, months ago, with the weird dissonance of promoting Gabbard at every turn, but slamming Obama and Warren as somehow untenable. That just does not compute. Whatever it is you're looking for in a candidate, it has no relationship to anything I'm looking for. That's not going to change for either one of us, so we will probably continue to squabble (because internet), but we're obviously way too far apart to reach any accord.

Back to my popcorn. Would you like a fresh bag, too?
I missed Cristalle's (or anyone's) posts about Tulsi. I don't know where she stands on a lot of issues. The one issue I am more than a little impressed with of hers is to majorly scale down the military and work for world peace. If that is on the radar at all with Bernie or Elizabeth it is minimal.
 

Cristalle

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Honestly, Cristalle, you lost me way back, months ago, with the weird dissonance of promoting Gabbard at every turn, but slamming Obama and Warren as somehow untenable. That just does not compute. Whatever it is you're looking for in a candidate, it has no relationship to anything I'm looking for. That's not going to change for either one of us, so we will probably continue to squabble (because internet), but we're obviously way too far apart to reach any accord.

Back to my popcorn. Would you like a fresh bag, too?
That's really disappointing, Beebo. I like to think that I've made my policy choices and biases pretty clear but they're constantly interpreted through some other lens, and dismissed. To me, this explains how the Democrats lost and could lose again. I feel that "Whatever it is you're looking for" is not going to address the underlying reasons as to why we got Trump in the first place. I don't want Trump, and I don't want worse than Trump to win later on because we elect another feel-good president who doesn't do anything to address the underlying malaise that is in the undercurrent of our economy and our politics.
 

Katheryne Helendale

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That's really disappointing, Beebo. I like to think that I've made my policy choices and biases pretty clear but they're constantly interpreted through some other lens, and dismissed. To me, this explains how the Democrats lost and could lose again. I feel that "Whatever it is you're looking for" is not going to address the underlying reasons as to why we got Trump in the first place. I don't want Trump, and I don't want worse than Trump to win later on because we elect another feel-good president who doesn't do anything to address the underlying malaise that is in the undercurrent of our economy and our politics.
Not sure if you're talking about Obama, but if you are, he was hardly a feel-good president. He took our economy from the toilet and brought it to the point where even Trump couldn't fuck it up, and he brought health care to the forefront. True, he didn't really tackle a lot of social issues, but considering what he was working against - a Congress that didn't want him there - he did alright. And he was honestly the most personable, down-to-earth president's we've had in a long time, if ever.
 

Cristalle

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The campaign should take this person's ad up and make it official.
 

Cristalle

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Not sure if you're talking about Obama, but if you are, he was hardly a feel-good president. He took our economy from the toilet and brought it to the point where even Trump couldn't fuck it up, and he brought health care to the forefront. True, he didn't really tackle a lot of social issues, but considering what he was working against - a Congress that didn't want him there - he did alright. And he was honestly the most personable, down-to-earth president's we've had in a long time, if ever.
Katheryne, I've said it before, that it's mixed. It's not the social issues I'm talking about. The economy's headline numbers are good, but it's much more complex. The recovery was grindingly slow and took too long to benefit the people at the bottom. Health care was an improvement but it took too long to fully implement, allowing Trump space to screw with it, and it's still largely inaccessible for a lot of people because of high deductibles. If things were so great, why did we get Trump? It wasn't Russia. Obscure racist memes with frogs didn't give Trump the win.

I'm saying that the people need someone who is going to fight, who is going to organize and move people. Everything people thought Obama was going to do with list and didn't, Bernie has done, is doing, and will do as president to get his agenda done.
 
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Beebo Brink

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I don't want worse than Trump to win later on because we elect another feel-good president who doesn't do anything to address the underlying malaise that is in the undercurrent of our economy and our politics.
You want a candidate who will turn the country around by implementing perfectly reasonable solutions that the population as a whole considers to be radical left wing crazy talk. Whereas I don't believe that the faults in this country can be fixed by a president, no matter how idealistic; we are fighting the character flaws of a nation, not the person who steps into the oval office every four years.

I don't believe in White Knights. I believe the tide of history tends to shape people more than the other way around. There is no one person who can make or break our future, not Sanders or Warren or Biden and not even Trump. Trump is only a danger because we as a nation have allowed him to become one, and that's on us, not on him.
 

Katheryne Helendale

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Katheryne, I've said it before, that it's mixed. It's not the social issues I'm talking about. The economy's headline numbers are good, but it's much more complex. The recovery was grindingly slow and took too long to benefit the people at the bottom. Health care was an improvement but it took too long to fully implement, allowing Trump space to screw with it, and it's still largely inaccessible for a lot of people because of high deductibles. If things were so great, why did we get Trump? It wasn't Russia. Obscure racist memes with frogs didn't give Trump the win.

I'm saying that the people need someone who is going to fight, who is going to organize and move people. Everything people thought Obama was going to do with list and didn't, Bernie has done, is doing, and will do as president to get his agenda done.
Look what Obama had to work with. For most of his time as President, he faced a hostile Congress. A President alone can't get very much accomplished, he or she needs a cooperative Congress. Given what he had to work with, Obama accomplished a lot.

Obama may have also got us Trump, unfortunately. But that was not his fault. Much of America was just not ready for a black president, nor will they ever be. Every day Obama occupied the White House, an entire group of far-right wingnuts seethed, waiting for someone to come along who would liberate them from what they saw as an abomination and a threat to white supremacy.

Then Trump came along.

It didn't help that Hillary was a lackluster candidate. She should have been able to win in a landslide and bury Trump. But she lacked the charisma to do so.

But, bottom line, none of this was Obama's fault. He did the best he could with what he had. And he did a damned good job of it.
 
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