Coup in the USA?

Cindy Claveau

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I'm not so sure about that, Beebo. I mean, President Carter issued a proclamation pardoning draft dodgers, and that was that.
Draft Dodgers didn't violently assault the halls of Congress, though. Dodging the draft was considered a passive act of protest against the Vietnam War and the country was so divided Carter thought pardons would help to heal. I doubt that any kind of majority of Americans want to see the protestors pardoned.
 

Innula Zenovka

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There was a very specific crime for Carter's pardons. We don't even know yet what all participants in the coup are guilty of. It's too early. He can try, but I doubt he willl.

This is a man who betrays everyone around him, including those who sell their soul on his behalf. He doesn't think twice about it.
I'm not saying for one moment that he's likely to try that, or that the courts would uphold it if he did.

I was just speculating about potential abuses of his power to issue pardons he might try.
 
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Cindy Claveau

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I'm not saying for one moment that he's likely to try that, or that the courts would uphold it if he did.

I was just speculating about potential abuses of his power to issue pardons he might try.
I immediately think of his children and some of his advisors, like Stephen Miller and Kayleigh Mackanenenacnenena
 

Innula Zenovka

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Draft Dodgers didn't violently assault the halls of Congress, though. Dodging the draft was considered a passive act of protest against the Vietnam War and the country was so divided Carter thought pardons would help to heal.
Certainly. I mentioned Carter simply as an example of a general pardon. I have an idea I read somewhere about them being issued to former rebels, at least in some circumstances, after the Civil War, too.

Or possibly even early, after the Whiskey Rebellion?
 
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Fionalein

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Draft Dodgers didn't violently assault the halls of Congress, though. Dodging the draft was considered a passive act of protest against the Vietnam War and the country was so divided Carter thought pardons would help to heal. I doubt that any kind of majority of Americans want to see the protestors pardoned.
He most likely also wanted the elite back from Canada, I have no numbers but I can imagine a higher percentage of educated people leaving the country to dodge the draft.
 

Cindy Claveau

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Certainly. I mentioned Carter simply as an example of a general pardon. I have an idea I read somewhere about them being issued to former rebels, at least in some circumstances, after the Civil War, too.

Or possibly even early, after the Whiskey Rebellion?
There was an effort by Lincoln to pardon all ex-Confederates, his successor Johnson managed to grant pardons in exchange for written oaths to never rebel again.

Johnson's proclamation of May 29, 1865, for example, did not include anyone whose personal property exceeded $20,000. Several mitigating factors however led Johnson to greater clemency, such as the attitude of Lincoln for reconciliation and William H. Seward's similar leniency towards the former rebels.[4]

"President Andrew Johnson Pardoning Rebels at the White House", Harper's Weekly, October 14, 1865

Those excluded from general amnesty had the option of applying to the president for a special pardon, and much of Johnson's time was spent in granting those pardons.
 

Beebo Brink

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I was just speculating about potential abuses of his power to issue pardons he might try.
I agree he might try it, IF he thinks there's some gain for him by doing so. From what I've seen, the other pardons were usually paid for in some way, either through large campaign donations or silence about his crimes.

What have these rioters done for him lately?
 

Veritable Quandry

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Certainly. I mentioned Carter simply as an example of a general pardon. I have an idea I read somewhere about them being issued to former rebels, at least in some circumstances, after the Civil War, too.

Or possibly even early, after the Whiskey Rebellion?
Washington issued a blanket pardon for Insurrection after the Whiskey Rebellion, and Johnson did the same after the Civil War. Both Ford and Carter issued pardons for draft evasion.

In all of those instances, the pardons were around a specific set of dates and for a specific crime.

When Ford pardoned Nixon, it was limited to crimes around Watergate, which set a general timeframe and, thanks to Nixon being listed as an unindicted co-conspirator in other trials, gave a general idea of what crimes it was issued for.

If Trump were to issue a pardon now, it would have to have enough detail to identify who is pardoned (all trespassers in the Jan 6th incursion, for example) and could say anything from specific, minor crimes (criminal trespass and ignoring directions of police would cover most of the mob) or a blanket "all crimes" pardon that might have trouble in court if the judge says that it must identify the specific crimes covered (not tested in court yet to the best of my knowledge). Or something in between (like pardoning all crimes except assault, murder, and incitement for example).
 
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Veritable Quandry

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I agree he might try it, IF he thinks there's some gain for him by doing so. From what I've seen, the other pardons were usually paid for in some way, either through large campaign donations or silence about his crimes.

What have these rioters done for him lately?
I could see him doing more out of spite and to hamper the Biden DoJ.
 

Fionalein

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I could see him doing more out of spite and to hamper the Biden DoJ.
I think he only did stuff to "own the libs" because that resonated with his base. He got cheered for and that kept him in power. Let's hope he looses interest in pleasing his toy (the mob) once he sees no benfet in it anymore.
 

Soen Eber

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I could see Biden pardoning all of them of only the trespass charge, in exchange for a written statement both acknowledging the election and disavowing violence. It would still leave the worst of them on the hook for their more serious crimes while leaving the "go along to get along" types to pursue their normal lives.

Pardons can't undo job dismissal, loss of professional certification, or anything along those lines however - which will be a bit of sting. I don't have a problem with that, however. If you're smart enough to be a professional you should be smart enough to make proper choices.
 

Innula Zenovka

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I think he only did stuff to "own the libs" because that resonated with his base. He got cheered for and that kept him in power. Let's hope he looses interest in pleasing his toy (the mob) once he sees no benfet in it anymore.
The benefit is their adulation and their donations to his various campaign funds, when then vanish into the financial trumposphere.
 
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danielravennest

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wait, this true?
Its not settled law. Very few people have ever been impeached/convicted by Congress, 21 including Trump twice. No president has ever tried to pardon himself. If Trump tries to pardon himself or co-conspirators, it will inevitably go before the Supreme Court. They will then look at the "Framer's Intent", what did the people who wrote the Constitution intend for it to mean. Documents like the Federalist Papers, who were written by those same people to promote adoption of the Constitution, provides information about what they meant by the impeachment clause. The English Common Law is also relevant. It was the law of the US before we became a country.
 

Kamilah Hauptmann

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Its not settled law. Very few people have ever been impeached/convicted by Congress, 21 including Trump twice. No president has ever tried to pardon himself. If Trump tries to pardon himself or co-conspirators, it will inevitably go before the Supreme Court. They will then look at the "Framer's Intent", what did the people who wrote the Constitution intend for it to mean. Documents like the Federalist Papers, who were written by those same people to promote adoption of the Constitution, provides information about what they meant by the impeachment clause. The English Common Law is also relevant. It was the law of the US before we became a country.
You mean like this?

Huh, maybe not:



Or, as I understand this, an official removed from their post can't just be reinstalled back into that post.

Or at least it's untested. We'll might find out soon though. Or Trump will just tantrum away refusing to drop any pardons. Stay tuned! ¯\_ (ツ)_/¯
Snark aside, keep on posting Daniel, I keep reading.
 
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