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Bartholomew Gallacher

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Are you looking for a new and highly paid job? I am sure that the "Head of Public Affairs" within Airbus Germany surprisingly became vacant after this little discussion with Extinction Rebellion, so all you do need is to apply now!

 
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danielravennest

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Dunno where to go from there. I've been in an argument with someone who firmly believes the production and use of electric vehicles (and the eventual disposal of their batteries) is far more harmful to the environment than gas-powered vehicles are. *sigh*
Production of a passenger car with a long-range battery *does* use more energy than building a gasoline car, by about 68%. However, *driving* such a car makes up the difference in about 18,000 miles. A long-range electric consumes about 1-1.2 MJ/mile, while a gasoline car @30 mpg uses 4.3 MJ. To the extent the electric is powered by non-fossil sources, the carbon emissions are even less.

Used battery cells will be recycled, because they represent better ores than the lithium, nickel, and cobalt mines supply. The battery pack, the metal box that all the cells go into, doesn't wear out.
 

Katheryne Helendale

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Production of a passenger car with a long-range battery *does* use more energy than building a gasoline car, by about 68%. However, *driving* such a car makes up the difference in about 18,000 miles. A long-range electric consumes about 1-1.2 MJ/mile, while a gasoline car @30 mpg uses 4.3 MJ. To the extent the electric is powered by non-fossil sources, the carbon emissions are even less.

Used battery cells will be recycled, because they represent better ores than the lithium, nickel, and cobalt mines supply. The battery pack, the metal box that all the cells go into, doesn't wear out.
That's pretty much what I say. Then he comes back with, "where do you think that lithium comes from?" and I come back with "they dig it up. Where do you think your gasoline comes from?", and the argument dies at that point.
 
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Beebo Brink

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Sid

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We simply can't change as quick as we really should, without drastically change our lifestyles, ruin lives and jobs. We have almost no other choise than to change, little step by little step. That is way to slow for nature and climate. But will will not halt the global pollution growth within a few decades, let alone reduce it. But we still have to make every effort we can. We have to start somewhere and hope for the best.
 

Bartholomew Gallacher

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Well the issue is that depending on which warming corridor you do prefer - 1.5 or 2 K - and model of economic growth and CO2 suction technologies or not, the time until we do reach the point of no return is somewhere around 2028 up to 2035.

Extinction Rebellion therefore has those demands:

1. Governments must stop telling lies, instead should embrace the science based truth and act accordingly, announce a national climate emergency.
2. All CO2 emissions must come to a netto zero until 2025.
3. The government should install a citizen's assembly and implement their results as low.

Those are radical demands by any means. But then mankind has been doing nothing for at least half a century, so those people have little to no trust into the economy and governmental systems to suddenly act for a change.

Do you know the old joke: two planets are meeting in space, one is looking sad like having the cold. Asks one the other: "What's wrong with you?" "I've got a bad case of mankind." "Oh dear, don't worry, I had that too - soon they'll exterminate themselves and be gone."

So no need in having a Smith to cure us, we're all going to do it by ourselves.

Agent Smith: I'd like to share a revelation that I've had during my time here. It came to me when I tried to classify your species and I realized that you're not actually mammals. Every mammal on this planet instinctively develops a natural equilibrium with the surrounding environment but you humans do not. You move to an area and you multiply and multiply until every natural resource is consumed and the only way you can survive is to spread to another area. There is another organism on this planet that follows the same pattern. Do you know what it is? A virus. Human beings are a disease, a cancer of this planet. You're a plague and we are the cure.
 

Beebo Brink

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...the point of no return is somewhere around 2028 up to 2035.
Possibly. We don't really have any idea. Ending our CO2 emissions today might do nothing more than slow down the rate of global warming without changing the end result. For instance, there's no guarantee we can stop the methane output from thawing permafrost, which could outstrip our emissions. Research is showing that thaw is happening faster and deeper than expected (the usual mantra of climate science).

Our HOPE is that by reducing emissions we will avoid an ever worsening climate change progression and can get global temperatures to stabilize at some uncomfortable but not necessarily fatal plateau. That assumes an even progression without tipping points. We don't know if there are tipping points or whether they've been crossed.
 

Innula Zenovka

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Some of the comments in the thread raise not-unreasonable questions, including the rationale of climate-crisis protestors trying to stop people from a working class area of East London using not private cars but public transport to get to work and, if they'd ever been to Canning Town before, what they expected to happen.

Obviously the commuters' annoyance at the inconvenience caused by the protests doesn't justify beating up the protesters, and I was pleased to see that some passengers seemed to be trying to stop the others from lynching the activists, but if I were a single parent in someone like Canning Town, quite possibly on a zero-hours contract in a poorly-paying job, I would not have been pleased to see the protestors either.

 
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Beebo Brink

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Some of the comments in the thread raise not-unreasonable questions, including the rationale of climate-crisis protestors trying to stop people from a working class area of East London using not private cars but public transport to get to work....
That's just daft.

“I need to get to work, I have to feed my kids”
Disrupting the lives of people who quite literally can't feed their family if they miss a paycheck isn't contributing to a solution. If anything, it's reinforcing the idea that climate change mitigation is a force to be resisted because it will erode quality of life.
 

Innula Zenovka

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That's just daft.


Disrupting the lives of people who quite literally can't feed their family if they miss a paycheck isn't contributing to a solution. If anything, it's reinforcing the idea that climate change mitigation is a force to be resisted because it will erode quality of life.
More protests at a nearby station:

Other members of XR distanced themselves from the action which, it was explained, was autonomously taken by a number of groups within the movement.

The results of an internal poll of XR members, shared with the Guardian, showed 72% opposed action on London’s underground network under any circumstances.

It is understood the results of the survey were shared with the groups planning the transport action before it took place. No information on the size of the sample or the methodology of the poll was given.



Apparently they were disrupting the Docklands Light Railway because
its destination was London’s financial district.

“It’s heading for the City, which is the God of our time,” she said. “All the scientific reports coming out now about what we should do about the climate breakdown, about the ecological breakdown, we need total transformation of the economy. At the moment we serve economic growth. Humanity, the planet is crucifying itself to economic growth. It cannot go on.”

It's also the only Underground route into the rest of central London if you live in the predominantly working-class areas of outer East London.

Anyone from Shadwell and Canning Town heading for work in the financial districts of Docklands and the City will far more likely be working there as a cleaner, kitchen staff or security guard than as a broker, and many of the commuters will have been undertaking a longer journey into central or west London for a similar job there.
 
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Innula Zenovka

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"Global heating makes our homes uninhabitable - Lets contribute to global heating by doing even more useless air conditioning."
I really can't wait till those morons run out of oil to pay for their sins.
The whole article is worth reading.

Qatar, it seems, is pretty much uninhabitable without cooling, and the Qataris seem to be doing a great deal -- more, I'm sure, than many US desert and irrigated desert cities -- to reduce the need for air-conditioning indoors through design methods, and similarly doing all they can naturally to cool the urban "cool spots" where outdoor cooling is used so people can hold street-markets and walk down the street without acute discomfort.

The air conditioning system described in the headline is the one in the city's international soccer stadium, and the stadium would clearly be unusable without it.

It's a complicated problem, as the local climate activists apparently acknowledge.

Certainly I'm glad I bothered to read the article -- when you've got economically important cities, like Qatar, or Los Angeles or Houston or Phoenix or Las Vegas, that aren't sustainable in anything like their present form without huge amounts of air-conditioning, what do you do?

Abandon them?
 

Innula Zenovka

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The day will come they will have to...
Yes, and the day will come when I die, too, but I'm not planning to do that before I have to.

In the case of Qatar, that's an entire country you're talking about, in a strategically important part of the world.

It's not the sort of thing you do before you absolutely have to.
 

Brenda Archer

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More protests at a nearby station:


Apparently they were disrupting the Docklands Light Railway because
It's also the only Underground route into the rest of central London if you live in the predominantly working-class areas of outer East London.

Anyone from Shadwell and Canning Town heading for work in the financial districts of Docklands and the City will far more likely be working there as a cleaner, kitchen staff or security guard than as a broker, and many of the commuters will have been undertaking a longer journey into central or west London for a similar job there.
I’ve been seeing tweets that XR has a diversity problem, and I wonder if mistakes like these are the result of it. There’s no good climate activism without social justice.
 

Beebo Brink

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Qatar, it seems, is pretty much uninhabitable without cooling, and the Qataris seem to be doing a great deal -- more, I'm sure, than many US desert and irrigated desert cities -- to reduce the need for air-conditioning indoors through design methods, and similarly doing all they can naturally to cool the urban "cool spots" where outdoor cooling is used so people can hold street-markets and walk down the street without acute discomfort.
I read through the Comments section and quite a few people pointed out that A/C units create heat as well, due to the inefficiency of engines. So the power used to create cool air funneled in one direction is also creating yet more heat that is dumped elsewhere in the system. That begins to sound like a desperate arms race.