2020 Democratic Primary

[Lady Darnk Juniorette]

 

[Lady Darnk Juniorette]

 

[Cristalle]

 

[Cristalle]

"Democracy" in action.

South Carolina Closing Poll Stations Without Notice

 

[CronoCloud Creeggan]

If you can't handle a bit of mild scrutiny and criticism of candidates now, you have no hope in the general.

I wouldn't call the "Killary is a Warmonger and every other Democrat is an establishment sellout and evil and you might as well vote for a Republican", as "mild scrutiny and criticism.

There's only one candidate here who has an entire thread devoted to what horrible people his supporters are.

Yes, because too many of them online are assholes. especially the men. Whose ire seems to be VERY focused on female candidates, whether it was Hillary in 2016, or Warren and Harris now.

A combination of free college for anyone who can use it, and a UBI for those who can’t, would go a long way to dent the appeal of right wing extremism.

Perhaps. It is something that should be experimented with, start with expanding the EIC (Earned Income Credit), since the EIC was essentially designed to be a form of UBI. Though you have to realize, the intensifiying of the Cold War during the Reagan years shifted the discourse around such things. So there's hostility to UBI as a form of "socialism/communism" even though Tricky Dick Nixon thought we might have to implement something because wages weren't keeping up with inflation and that was a problem. It's why we have EIC in the first place. As for free college, I think community colleges should be funded more and treated more like an extension of high school. Minimal fees, and encourage EVERYONE to take courses.

You see things just as disses. They're not "disses" for the sake of dissing.

From the "questionable" sources you use and the rhetoric those sources use, they most certainly are disses. And you sure post a LOT of them. I support Warren right? But I don't go around constantly posting "Bernie is a commie who wants to make private business illegal" rant from some bearded-libertarian on the internet. I actually LIKE Bernie, I just think he's better suited for Secretary of Labor. However I don't like some of his online followers, especially the men who openly call themselves libertarians or independents, but who go around dissing feminists and SJW's even though they support Bernie because they want' to "Break the establishment" I can't trust them, especially as a member of the LGBTQ community.

I would still vote for most of them if they end up becoming the nominee

I would agree, if Bernie is the nominee I would with 100 percent certainty vote for him in the general. The only people that the 100 percent might not apply to would be Wiiliamson (cray cray), and Gabbard and Bloomberg.

And thanks for looking down your nose at me with the "not a Democrat" business.

You aren't, though you have a LOT to say about the Democratic primary, which is supposed to be for actual members of the party. I'm sorry but in my experience, I simply can't trust "independents who lean liberal" or "Libertarians who lean liberal", (especially the men under 40 and even more the Tech-y ones) on certain issues close to me.(A lot of tech-bro-tarians and supposed independents have some VERY nasty views on transpeople and feminists, and I am both) I am not a Green, I'm not going to go on Green message boards and discuss their primary, or the Reform party if they're still around, or the Constitution anti-tax party, or even the Republicans. As Paul Simon once said: "I am not a Neo-anything, I am a Democrat"

You demonstrate why some Greens will never vote for a Democrat.

I don't expect ANY Green to participate in the Democratic primary when they have their own party.
I DO expect them to realize that we are currently a two party nation effectively and have the common sense to vote for the Democrat.

Democrats are just the lesser evil and that is nothing to be proud of.

That whole mindset is a falsity! It is common among the male tech-bro-tarian edgelords who just want to break the system because they're more anarchists who hate mommy/government telling them they should be nice to women/minorities/pay more taxes for universal healthcare

The sad reality is that we don't have much choice and the Democratic Party is only there holding off the worst, instead of actively working to do much more.

The Reality is we live in a country that's almost evenly divided politically. There are LIMITS to what the Democrats can actually do. You want a "much more"? Well maybe they simply can't give it to you even if they want to.

No other Democrat’s supporters are engaged in behavior on a similar scale, which is more characteristic of the online movement galvanized by Trump.

It's more characteristic of the Trump movement because it's a subset of the same Demographic. Mostly techy male edgelords who want to break the system and they see Bernie as a way to do that. And the free college/forgiven loans/restrictions on H1B's appeal to them. They aren't democrats, though they might claim they are.

the same 'Only Bernie has our backs, only Bernie is progressive'

Yes, I've seen that.

it really is a cult of personality.

sort of.

I do not blame Bernie, but he -does- have a follower issue, and really, outside of trying to get them to cut it out, there isn't much he can do about it.

I've said this before, and I'll say it again. I like Bernie, but I don't like some of his online followers, especially the under 40 bearded techy male ones.

I think the more interesting take away is how Sanders' opponents have weaponized his popularity.
I wonder if it is the same people who did it to Obama.

Yes, it is. I noticed some nasty near misogyny aimed at Hillary from what I thought of as Obama-bros (younger techy often bearded male obama supporters) I always figured some of them jumped ship to Bernie because of how much they seemed to HATE hillary. As I once said, I think some of it was they saw her as the "Mom" telling them "what to do", kind of like how supposed "liberal" gamers ganged up on Anita Sarkeesian.

When it shows your hypocrisy to attack the message, you start attacking the messenger.

How is saying I like Bernie, and think he would be better suited to be Secretary of Labor in a Warren administration...attacking the message. I mean for goodness sake, I voted for him in the 2016 primary!

you start attacking the messenger.

Yes, because too many male Bernie-fanatics don't have enough social awareness to know when they should tone it down a tad. Warren, Buttigieg, Biden, Harris, Booker, Yang, and yes Hillary Clinton not the Satan's some Bernie fans make them out to be.

It's a cult of policy. Bernie is not some charismatic dude.

It can be a personality cult, even if Bernie doesn't have traditional charisma. He has his online supports to do his Charisma for him and post memes and whatnot. I have taken those "which candidate matches your views" and it gave me Yang as top pick, but almost every other democrat was within 2 -4 points of him! Bernie/Joe/Elizabeth/Pete aren't all that different as some of the Bernie-fanatics claim they are. The Non-Bernie candidates aren't the "Establishment Capitalist Pig-dog Satan", Bernie isn't a "Pinko-commie-satan-who-hates-capitalism". They agree on much.

it is true that he is the only one who is willing to fight hard for certain things. Warren's Medicare for All transition plan equates to "not in my lifetime."

That is a blatant lie and exaggeration. Bernie can't wave a magic wand and give us all unicorn ponies no matter how much I want one. it requires work, and yes compromise. Presidents don't work in a vacuum, there's all sorts of people, interests, and issues in regards to healthcare that cannot be wished away no matter how much we want them. In the past things were different, but as I said the Reagan years shifted the baseline and enough wasn't done to shift it back. (it was almost impossible to with a bunch of Neo-confederate Dixiecrats in Republican clothing taking over the Republican party)

He's also an Iraq War warmonger.

I think you should tone down that warmonger bit, while Joe Biden is no isolationist pacifist, he's no John Bolton either. Sometimes...we have to intervene, and sometimes we're stuck intervening because of what happened in the past. @#$@#$ Woodrow Wilson and Ike Eisenhower!

Add in the fact that he is a former spook

Really? He was just an Ensign in Naval intelligence. He himself said that at times his job was "Military Uber" for his Commander. Besides one of his jobs when he was deployed, was identifying and disrupting financial networks for terrorists. Maybe you don't like that, but there are things that are done when one fights to help one win.

My opinion on Buttigieg is that he needs to spend some time in a position in Congress for a while, and should have done so before running for president.

Agggg! Run away!
Voting Software

Thank you for the Obligatory XKCD, I am familiar with this specific comic.

why is it the only one who ppl scream is too old is the one who seems the healthiest of the lot?

Personally I think Pete is probably the healthiest, with Sanders the least healthy, but I'm not worried about Bernie, he's a tough old guy. The Orange Nativist on the other hand

 

[Ishina]

I wouldn't call the "Killary is a Warmonger and every other Democrat is an establishment sellout and evil and you might as well vote for a Republican", as "mild scrutiny and criticism.

That's a silly mischaracterisation of the comment you were responding to.

 

[CronoCloud Creeggan]

That's a silly mischaracterisation of the comment you were responding to.

I was making a general statement referring the the plethora of Videos, Videos, and Videos from certain people bashing every actual Democrat as a near-Republican establishment Satan. Say it with me, calling something logic doesn’t make it so. Calling someone rational doesn’t make it so. Opinions from Youtube men are not facts.

 

[Ishina]

I was making a general statement referring the the plethora of Videos, Videos, and Videos from certain people bashing every actual Democrat as a near-Republican establishment Satan. Say it with me, calling something logic doesn’t make it so. Calling someone rational doesn’t make it so. Opinions from Youtube men are not facts.

The Hill 'Rising' is hosted by a woman, Krystal Ball, who puts out great content and deserves way more views. Rational National seems like a reasonable guy from what I've seen. And Beau of the Fifth Column is a big cuddly feminist who has a fantastic way with words. I don't know why you're having such an adverse reaction to good progressive independant sources.

You're allowed to just disagree with them, ya know? You don't have to go through all this nonsense of trying to discredit them by trying to associate them with misogyny and the alt-right.

 

[Jolene Benoir]

This.

Free college is great, and, I feel, even necessary for a thriving economy. But our K-12 system is failing our children. Schools are grossly inconsistent from state to state and even district to district. And the students they are turning out are often woefully prepared for college, free or not. Teaching to tests is part of the problem. They make for great test scores, but poor problem solving skills.

By far, the biggest problem that K-12 has, imo, is its funding, being property taxes. This allows continued segregation because wealthy areas by nature can afford the very best while those that are not wealthy struggle and because America IS still heavily segregated. Almost every election schools in lower income areas have to go begging via referendum and they often do not get it. Schools in the wealthy areas look like college campuses with all of the amenities, the students are guided and encouraged toward taking college level courses. School in lower income areas struggle to have books and they do not emphasize college preparation in the same manner. Add to that state funding in which Republican politicians deny funding to said schools and their voters go right along with it because, hey, THEIR schools are fine.

Once upon a time, students might have been encouraged to go to vo-tech schools or other facilities for trade knowledge but those jobs have largely disappeared along with those schools to be replaced by the predatory schools whose main purpose is to suck their less educated students into a lifetime of debt with no means of repayment. During Obama's term those schools were punished for that behavior. Trump's brought them back.

 

[Kara Spengler]

I wouldn't call the "Killary is a Warmonger and every other Democrat is an establishment sellout and evil and you might as well vote for a Republican", as "mild scrutiny and criticism.

Yes, because too many of them online are assholes. especially the men. Whose ire seems to be VERY focused on female candidates, whether it was Hillary in 2016, or Warren and Harris now.

Perhaps. It is something that should be experimented with, start with expanding the EIC (Earned Income Credit), since the EIC was essentially designed to be a form of UBI. Though you have to realize, the intensifiying of the Cold War during the Reagan years shifted the discourse around such things. So there's hostility to UBI as a form of "socialism/communism" even though Tricky Dick Nixon thought we might have to implement something because wages weren't keeping up with inflation and that was a problem. It's why we have EIC in the first place. As for free college, I think community colleges should be funded more and treated more like an extension of high school. Minimal fees, and encourage EVERYONE to take courses.

From the "questionable" sources you use and the rhetoric those sources use, they most certainly are disses. And you sure post a LOT of them. I support Warren right? But I don't go around constantly posting "Bernie is a commie who wants to make private business illegal" rant from some bearded-libertarian on the internet. I actually LIKE Bernie, I just think he's better suited for Secretary of Labor. However I don't like some of his online followers, especially the men who openly call themselves libertarians or independents, but who go around dissing feminists and SJW's even though they support Bernie because they want' to "Break the establishment" I can't trust them, especially as a member of the LGBTQ community.

I would agree, if Bernie is the nominee I would with 100 percent certainty vote for him in the general. The only people that the 100 percent might not apply to would be Wiiliamson (cray cray), and Gabbard and Bloomberg.

You aren't, though you have a LOT to say about the Democratic primary, which is supposed to be for actual members of the party. I'm sorry but in my experience, I simply can't trust "independents who lean liberal" or "Libertarians who lean liberal", (especially the men under 40 and even more the Tech-y ones) on certain issues close to me.(A lot of tech-bro-tarians and supposed independents have some VERY nasty views on transpeople and feminists, and I am both) I am not a Green, I'm not going to go on Green message boards and discuss their primary, or the Reform party if they're still around, or the Constitution anti-tax party, or even the Republicans. As Paul Simon once said: "I am not a Neo-anything, I am a Democrat"
I don't expect ANY Green to participate in the Democratic primary when they have their own party.
I DO expect them to realize that we are currently a two party nation effectively and have the common sense to vote for the Democrat.

That whole mindset is a falsity! It is common among the male tech-bro-tarian edgelords who just want to break the system because they're more anarchists who hate mommy/government telling them they should be nice to women/minorities/pay more taxes for universal healthcare

The Reality is we live in a country that's almost evenly divided politically. There are LIMITS to what the Democrats can actually do. You want a "much more"? Well maybe they simply can't give it to you even if they want to.

It's more characteristic of the Trump movement because it's a subset of the same Demographic. Mostly techy male edgelords who want to break the system and they see Bernie as a way to do that. And the free college/forgiven loans/restrictions on H1B's appeal to them. They aren't democrats, though they might claim they are.

Yes, I've seen that.

sort of.

I've said this before, and I'll say it again. I like Bernie, but I don't like some of his online followers, especially the under 40 bearded techy male ones.

Yes, it is. I noticed some nasty near misogyny aimed at Hillary from what I thought of as Obama-bros (younger techy often bearded male obama supporters) I always figured some of them jumped ship to Bernie because of how much they seemed to HATE hillary. As I once said, I think some of it was they saw her as the "Mom" telling them "what to do", kind of like how supposed "liberal" gamers ganged up on Anita Sarkeesian.

How is saying I like Bernie, and think he would be better suited to be Secretary of Labor in a Warren administration...attacking the message. I mean for goodness sake, I voted for him in the 2016 primary!

Yes, because too many male Bernie-fanatics don't have enough social awareness to know when they should tone it down a tad. Warren, Buttigieg, Biden, Harris, Booker, Yang, and yes Hillary Clinton not the Satan's some Bernie fans make them out to be.

It can be a personality cult, even if Bernie doesn't have traditional charisma. He has his online supports to do his Charisma for him and post memes and whatnot. I have taken those "which candidate matches your views" and it gave me Yang as top pick, but almost every other democrat was within 2 -4 points of him! Bernie/Joe/Elizabeth/Pete aren't all that different as some of the Bernie-fanatics claim they are. The Non-Bernie candidates aren't the "Establishment Capitalist Pig-dog Satan", Bernie isn't a "Pinko-commie-satan-who-hates-capitalism". They agree on much.


That is a blatant lie and exaggeration. Bernie can't wave a magic wand and give us all unicorn ponies no matter how much I want one. it requires work, and yes compromise. Presidents don't work in a vacuum, there's all sorts of people, interests, and issues in regards to healthcare that cannot be wished away no matter how much we want them. In the past things were different, but as I said the Reagan years shifted the baseline and enough wasn't done to shift it back. (it was almost impossible to with a bunch of Neo-confederate Dixiecrats in Republican clothing taking over the Republican party)


I think you should tone down that warmonger bit, while Joe Biden is no isolationist pacifist, he's no John Bolton either. Sometimes...we have to intervene, and sometimes we're stuck intervening because of what happened in the past. @#$@#$ Woodrow Wilson and Ike Eisenhower!


Really? He was just an Ensign in Naval intelligence. He himself said that at times his job was "Military Uber" for his Commander. Besides one of his jobs when he was deployed, was identifying and disrupting financial networks for terrorists. Maybe you don't like that, but there are things that are done when one fights to help one win.

My opinion on Buttigieg is that he needs to spend some time in a position in Congress for a while, and should have done so before running for president.

Thank you for the Obligatory XKCD, I am familiar with this specific comic.

Personally I think Pete is probably the healthiest, with Sanders the least healthy, but I'm not worried about Bernie, he's a tough old guy. The Orange Nativist on the other hand

I meant the healthiest of the older peeps. Unless Pete rook a ride in a time machine ...

 

[Aeon Jiminy]

Yes, because too many of them online are assholes. especially the men. Whose ire seems to be VERY focused on female candidates, whether it was Hillary in 2016, or Warren and Harris now.

In your sweeping generalization, you forgot to include Tulsi Gabbard and Marianne Williamson. Could it be that it's you who is VERY focused on particular female candidates and making judgements from that narrow perspective? I'd say that male Sanders supporters have a lot of respect for Gabbard and Williamson and have dished out some scathing criticism of Biden, Buttigieg, and Bloomberg. What's Amy Klobuchar, chopped liver?

 

[Essence Lumin]

What's Amy Klobuchar, chopped liver?

I never understood that expression. Would unchopped liver be better?

 

[Innula Zenovka]

In your sweeping generalization, you forgot to include Tulsi Gabbard and Marianne Williamson. Could it be that it's you who is VERY focused on particular female candidates and making judgements from that narrow perspective? I'd say that male Sanders supporters have a lot of respect for Gabbard and Williamson and have dished out some scathing criticism of Biden, Buttigieg, and Bloomberg. What's Amy Klobuchar, chopped liver?

While it does not surprise me in the slightest that some male Sanders supports "have a lot of respect for Gabbard and Williamson," I think it probably says more about them and their judgment than it does about Gabbard and Williamson, and it's hardly the sort of thing I see as a recommendation for any of them.

I mean, to use an image attributed to many people, it's all very well having an open mind, but not so open your brains fall out.

As to,

What's Amy Klobuchar, chopped liver?

I'd say, an also-ran whose main effect, if she stays in the campaign long enough, is likely to be to increase the likelihood of a "brokered convention".

 

[Beebo Brink]

As to, I'd say, an also-ran whose main effect, if she stays in the campaign long enough, is likely to be to increase the likelihood of a "brokered convention".

The majority of politicians who run for president have a massive ego, an overabundance of self-regard, and a keenly competitive spirit. Without those traits they would not present themselves as a candidate for leadership of an entire country. So stepping aside for the greater good and leaving the playing field to everyone else, that's just not their inclination.

 

[Cristalle]

I was making a general statement referring the the plethora of Videos, Videos, and Videos from certain people bashing every actual Democrat as a near-Republican establishment Satan. Say it with me, calling something logic doesn’t make it so. Calling someone rational doesn’t make it so. Opinions from Youtube men are not facts.

Their opinions are as valid and valuable as yours. All the posts are just discussion points, and often times contain video evidence of things candidates have said and done, which ARE facts. Your inability or unwillingness to parse out facts to engage in a discussion says more about you than them.

 

[Shiloh Lyric]

I thought this was pretty cool way to explain how Elizabeth Warren plans to pay for Medicare for All:

 

[Lady Darnk Juniorette]

 

[Katheryne Helendale]

That is a blatant lie and exaggeration. Bernie can't wave a magic wand and give us all unicorn ponies no matter how much I want one. it requires work, and yes compromise. Presidents don't work in a vacuum, there's all sorts of people, interests, and issues in regards to healthcare that cannot be wished away no matter how much we want them. In the past things were different, but as I said the Reagan years shifted the baseline and enough wasn't done to shift it back. (it was almost impossible to with a bunch of Neo-confederate Dixiecrats in Republican clothing taking over the Republican party)

So much this. It really doesn't matter what each Democratic presidential candidate promises; if we aren't able to hold onto the House and flip the Senate, there's not a whole lot the President is going to be able to do, especially if McConnell is still in charge. Even Bernie is not immune to this. In fact, he may well face even more of a brick wall than his competitors would.

 

[Katheryne Helendale]

In your sweeping generalization, you forgot to include Tulsi Gabbard and Marianne Williamson. Could it be that it's you who is VERY focused on particular female candidates and making judgements from that narrow perspective? I'd say that male Sanders supporters have a lot of respect for Gabbard and Williamson and have dished out some scathing criticism of Biden, Buttigieg, and Bloomberg. What's Amy Klobuchar, chopped liver?

Tulsi is a DINO, and Marianne is - well, Marianne is Marianne.

 

[Aeon Jiminy]

Tulsi is a DINO, and Marianne is - well, Marianne is Marianne.

Yea, I know that there is not much love for those two here. I brought them into the conversation to make a point about "especially the men. Whose ire seems to be VERY focused on female candidates, whether it was Hillary in 2016, or Warren and Harris now." But I guess they don't qualify.