2020 Democratic Primary

Aribeth Zelin

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I'm a great believer in looking things up and checking sources, and I thought others might the references interesting or useful.

I am also continually amazed at how people can say that they realise RT is a propaganda organ for a literally fascist government but, nevertheless, they think it's a trustworthy source about anything.

The Russians have become a lot better at propaganda than they were during the days of the USSR.
Its that or they just have much better tools combined with plenty of human tools [in multiple senses of the word] that will happily destroy the world to feel superior to others.
 
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Innula Zenovka

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Its that or they just have much better tools combined with plenty of human tools [in multiple senses of the word] that will happily destroy the world to feel superior to others.
They've certainly learned how to use social media.

It's fascinating to see how Russia has changed as a result of the complete collapse of the USSR and the economy, and all that's followed since.

The shockwaves from that social, economic and ideological cataclysm, combined with Western cultural influence and the media, combined with the arrival of the internet, are having such a huge effects on Europe and the US still.

It really is asymmetric warfare, with the Russians at a huge advantage because they were the early adaptors.
 
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Cristalle

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Thanks for the post, to which I will reply more fully when I have a bit more time.

...

The aim is to divide the opposition, get them fighting amongst themselves and discourage them from voting, and this kind of anti-immigrant black group is exactly the sort of campaign they would want to promote.
Everything you wrote may well be true, however, that doesn't change the fact that there are only a few policy responses.

1. The Democratic Party could respond to the critique and make real overtures to meet the needs of its staunchest cohort.

2. The Democratic Party could ignore the critique since they probably have that vote locked up anyway (this is historically the case for the last several decades).

#1 would result in progress toward justice and would be a good outcome, thanks Russia.

#2 is the wrong outcome but continues to happen anyway.

#2 is distasteful. The idea that there should not be any action on race issues just to spite the Russians seems more than a little inane to me. I suppose one would have to be a white liberal to find this an acceptable choice.
 
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Innula Zenovka

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Everything you wrote may well be true, however, that doesn't change the fact that there are only a few policy responses.

1. The Democratic Party could respond to the critique and make real overtures to meet the needs of its staunchest cohort.

2. The Democratic Party could ignore the critique since they probably have that vote locked up anyway (this is historically the case for the last several decades).

#1 would result in progress toward justice and would be a good outcome, thanks Russia.

#2 is the wrong outcome but continues to happen anyway.

#2 is distasteful. The idea that there should not be any action on race issues just to spite the Russians seems more than a little inane to me. I suppose one would have to be a white liberal to find this an acceptable choice.
That's your analysis, but it doesn't seem to be shared by the Democratic Party.
 
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Salome

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That's your analysis, but it doesn't seem to be shared by the Democratic Party.
I find this is mostly because weak minded idiots like to pretend Republicans don’t exist and deeply entrenched structural issues can be altered in a snap in order to maintain their childish world views. This allows them to insist impure Democrats who have the burden of answering to the full electorate and navigating deliberately slow-to-adapt institutions, are to blame of all social ills while the forces holding progress hostage get a pass or get hand-waved off as “of course they’re bad, but..” *insert bothsidesism here.*

All their news comes from TYT/GG types who are funded by right-wing extremists or outlets like RT who are funded by hostile foreign powers, or YouTube conspiracy mongers, yet when called out for parroting those talking points, they insist they’re able to separate the propaganda from the “real” news and everyone else is duped by corporate media, etc.

Look at the 2016 narrative and how the result is because the Dem party hasn’t faced reality about how HRC was a “bad candidate“ etc etc. When, in reality, we know without doubt the forces working against HRC were unprecedented and she still won the popular vote decisively. Yet, in order to maintain their narrative of Dems being the problem, they discount:

1) The reversal of the Voting Rights Act.
2) The decades-long voter suppression machine of the GOP which has been purging voter rolls, engaging in targeted gerrymandering-by-technology, under-funding polling places in Dem districts, continually investing in easily manipulated voting equipment, criminalizing minority populations to remove their voting rights, etc etc etc. They’ve been doing this more or less out in the open since 2000.
3) The multi-million dollar years long propaganda and vote interference efforts by Russia (and possibly China) to hack voting databanks, attack *only* the Dem party and depress progressive voter turnout.
4) The fuckery of extreme right-wing tech billionaires weaponizing social media to elevate the disruptive Left, keep the far right radicalized and engaged, and also depress any other turnout.
5) An unprecedented weaponization of the FBI to attack a candidate just before Election Day.

This list could go on. But instead of seeing how it took all this concentrated fuckery to defy the will of the majority and how they contributed to it, they see “Dems refuse to come to terms with being unpopular.” They don’t even recognize how this narrative is planted and re-enforced by the “news” they swallow. Because useful idiots are useful idiots.

The GOP, aided by hostile foreign actors and billionaires, have stacked the deck so far against progressive and Dems it takes unfathomable effort to win marginal victories and we’re still getting close if not winning. Dems have to walk a nebulous middle trying to give enough to progressives, centrists, and soft-conservatives in order to stand a chance. And instead of focusing on defeating the radicalized right, these morons advocate attacking the party closest to their political idealology, thus perpetuating the cycle and making sure progress is always handicapped.

Obviously, politics and politicians will always have good and bad. There will always be the need to evaluate between mundane and grand corruptions. But dealing with this flavor of “progressive” who falls for the tactics of the far right and enemies of global stability is fucking exhausting. In my lifetime alone, they’ve allowed the GOP to steal two key elections, sabotage our international standing and social safety nets, and stack the courts for the foreseeable future, all the while pretending like they have the moral fucking high ground.
 

Eunoli

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Obviously, politics and politicians will always have good and bad. There will always be the need to evaluate between mundane and grand corruptions. But dealing with this flavor of “progressive” who falls for the tactics of the far right and enemies of global stability is fucking exhausting. In my lifetime alone, they’ve allowed the GOP to steal two key elections, sabotage our international standing and social safety nets, and stack the courts for the foreseeable future, all the while pretending like they have the moral fucking high ground.
But its ok to see Democracy crumble, so long as they can feel superior about it.
 

Salome

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But its ok to see Democracy crumble, so long as they can feel superior about it.
The GOP has dismantled entire departments, cost us legions of non-political bureaucratic experts and social servants we won’t be able to replace for at least a generation, and rendered the courts so partisan and radical we can just write off one entire check and balance of the government for the foreseeable future and count on any policy we’re actually able to get passed as being chewed up and gutted in the courts.

But they’re still advocating playing chicken with tyranny and withholding their votes as if it’s anything but playing into exactly what the GOP and anti-Democratic global forces want them to do.

I’m so fucking tired of these ignorant fucking idiots.
 

Aeon Jiminy

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When Biden wins the Democratic Primary, I hope commits to Medicare4all as the country is ravaged from the aftermath of the pandemic. I hope he commits to immediately ending our wars and using our bloated military budget to saving lives at home. I hope he values small business.I hope he relieves our young people of their student debt burden and makes a commitment to the future students of America that education should be the key to their freedom and not the shackles on their feet. I hope he doesn't murder any leaders of other countries and topple their governments to the point of inducing slave trade. I hope he initiates a UBI program. I hope he listens more to the working people of this country and less to the CIA. I hope he fights for fair elections and paper ballots and doesn't reduce himself down to taking big corporate donations and dark money. I hope he strengthens our Social Security Program. I hope he uses that last remaining years of his life to find his heart and conscience and care about the survival of all living things after he's gone. I hope he aspires to greatness in the eyes of the common man instead of corporations.
 
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Monica Dream

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To my mind, there are plenty of other platforms and media the "activist reformer" can use to promote his or her views where they won't be co-opted to suit the agenda of Russian fascism and a greater Eurasia, so they should use them.

They should avoid RT just as they should avoid Fox, and for similar, but even more urgent reasons.
Fox, OAN, etc. Agreed 100%.
There's better sources -there's never a need to cite RT.

Ever.
 
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