12 Story Hirise Collapses In Miami Beach

[Rose Karuna]

If we're going to point fingers (of course we will, that's what we do around here), this is a very good place to start: The tenants themselves deferred maintenance and then much-needed repairs due to sticker shock and penny-pinching.

Majority of Florida condo board quit in 2019 as squabbling residents dragged out plans for repairs

This is one of the reasons I thought there should be a law or ordinance that require high rise condos to have a trust where a percentage of the dues get deposited for long term structural maintenance and repairs. That way the residents are not suddenly hit with a 15 million dollar bill, which divided amongst the 200 (estimated) residents is about $75,000 each. That's a big chunk of change to have to pony up at one time which is probably why an overwhelming number of them voted to hold off the critical repairs.

 

[Innula Zenovka]

This is one of the reasons I thought there should be a law or ordinance that require high rise condos to have a trust where a percentage of the dues get deposited for long term structural maintenance and repairs. That way the residents are not suddenly hit with a 15 million dollar bill, which divided amongst the 200 (estimated) residents is about $75,000 each. That's a big chunk of change to have to pony up at one time which is probably why an overwhelming number of them voted to hold off the critical repairs.

I don't know about the US, obviously, but in the UK we have exactly that, but level of monthly contribution is based on regular projected maintenance costs, not extraordinary items like this.

The building in which I live, for example, is very professionally managed, and the general maintenance budget maintains a very healthy reserve, but it doesn't run to unexpected major structural works.

 

[Beebo Brink]

The building in which I live, for example, is very professionally managed, and the general maintenance budget maintains a very healthy reserve, but it doesn't run to unexpected major structural works.

The only reason they faced such huge bills was because they deferred maintenance to begin with. It's always less expensive to fix problems right away; the longer they're ignored, the greater the damage that ensues and the cost rises accordingly.

Take my neighbors, for example. An attic window broke -- fixing it would have cost less than $100 and that would have been that. But they didn't fix it, which means rain blew in for years. So that meant water damage to the ceiling of the 2nd floor. They needed new gutters (which we eventually paid for), but until they were replaced, water poured down the sides of the house and into the basement, which I'm sure left foundation damage.

You are far less likely to ever need major structural work on your building if the maintenance budget ensures timely repairs that prevent deterioration from beginning.

 

[Innula Zenovka]

The only reason they faced such huge bills was because they deferred maintenance to begin with. It's always less expensive to fix problems right away; the longer they're ignored, the greater the damage that ensues and the cost rises accordingly.

Take my neighbors, for example. An attic window broke -- fixing it would have cost less than $100 and that would have been that. But they didn't fix it, which means rain blew in for years. So that meant water damage to the ceiling of the 2nd floor. They needed new gutters (which we eventually paid for), but until they were replaced, water poured down the sides of the house and into the basement, which I'm sure left foundation damage.

You are far less likely to ever need major structural work on your building if the maintenance budget ensures timely repairs that prevent deterioration from beginning.

Yes, which is why we have a maintenance budget and pay a very efficient property management company to keep the building properly maintained. What we don't have is a budget to cover the possibility that a major structural defect will unexpectedly be discovered and cost tens of thousands of pounds per apartment to fix.

 

[Argent Stonecutter]

If you do the maintenance theoretically it would be worthwhile for someone to provide affordable insurance against black swan events.

 

[Sid]

Yes, which is why we have a maintenance budget and pay a very efficient property management company to keep the building properly maintained. What we don't have is a budget to cover the possibility that a major structural defect will unexpectedly be discovered and cost tens of thousands of pounds per apartment to fix.

Same here. We have everything that has to do with maintenance and or replacement indexed for 30 ears: elevators, doors, central heating system, central water system, floors, ceilings, lightning, painting, railings, sewer system, all inspections. Yearly renewed with inflation figures.
At the moment they are renovating and modernizing the elevators. Extra costs for the individual apartment owner: €0.00. It is all payed out of the regular monthly maintenance budget and savings.
And our building is insured for the current replacement costs in case of calamities like fires, earth quakes and other catastrophes.

 

[Cristiano]

 

[Free]

Condos Are in Uncharted Territory

The first generation of American condominiums is reaching old age. Are homeowner boards up to the task?

slate.com

 

[Cristiano]

The 7-year-old daughter of a Miami firefighter is among Surfside building collapse victims

A member of the City of Miami Fire-Rescue has lost his 7-year-old daughter in the Surfside, Florida, building collapse, officials said Friday.

www.cnn.com

 

[Beebo Brink]

Crestview Towers condo in North Miami Beach evacuated due to unsafe conditions

NORTH MIAMI BEACH, FLA. (WSVN) - The City of North Miami Beach has ordered the evacuation of a condo building due to unsafe conditions.The North...

wsvn.com

 

[Rose Karuna]

Crestview Towers condo in North Miami Beach evacuated due to unsafe conditions

NORTH MIAMI BEACH, FLA. (WSVN) - The City of North Miami Beach has ordered the evacuation of a condo building due to unsafe conditions.The North...

wsvn.com

I predict we're going to start seeing this all over Florida for the next full year.

Florida condo units declared unsafe amid new building scrutiny

A condo in Kissimmee, Florida could see its walkways crumble and the building has been deemed “unsafe” by the Osceola County Building Department, according to Fox 35 Orlando.

nypost.com

If condo associations fearful of liability don't push it, insurance companies and cities afraid of another collapse will. I'm just wondering where they intend to relocate all the people who will be displaced by the buildings being declared unsafe or condemned.

 

[Innula Zenovka]

The amount of capital and debt represented by condos built in Florida during the relevant period must be colossal.

Quite separate from the the pain and suffering of the bereaved families and friends left by the disaster, this building's collapse is, I suspect, is going to have not-inconsiderable economic and political repercussions at both state and national levels over the next few years, in the same way that, here, we are starting to see as the full implications of the widespread use, for several years, of the cladding that caused the Grenfell disaster are beginning to be felt.

This has the potential to be far more disruptive, I think, since upgrading the cladding is, while well beyond the pockets of most of the people who bought the apartments, a relatively trivial and inexpensive procedure compared with the sort of work likely to be required in Florida.

 

[Beebo Brink]

The average single-family home, even in Florida, does not have to worry about concrete & rebar foundations coming apart due to continued sea water immersion over the course of decades. But the continued flooding, with sea water seeping up through the porous rocks below, can't be good for any house. This economic disruption is not just going to play out in condos, but eventually in every kind of building edging the Florida coasts (and elsewhere).

It's a giant game of shifting real estate debt onto someone else. Eventually, like the survivors at Southside, someone ends up on the losing end and personal wealth is wiped out. I read a comment in the WaPo just last week from a couple nearing retirement who planned on buying property in the Florida Keys. They figured there was still enough time left in the Climate Change timeline for them to enjoy this lifelong dream. Okay, then.

 

[Clara D.]

Why I found T'rumps promise to "drain the swamp" ironic.

It's what sketchy land developers do.

 

[Innula Zenovka]

The average single-family home, even in Florida, does not have to worry about concrete & rebar foundations coming apart due to continued sea water immersion over the course of decades. But the continued flooding, with sea water seeping up through the porous rocks below, can't be good for any house. This economic disruption is not just going to play out in condos, but eventually in every kind of building edging the Florida coasts (and elsewhere).

It's a giant game of shifting real estate debt onto someone else. Eventually, like the survivors at Southside, someone ends up on the losing end and personal wealth is wiped out. I read a comment in the WaPo just last week from a couple nearing retirement who planned on buying property in the Florida Keys. They figured there was still enough time left in the Climate Change timeline for them to enjoy this lifelong dream. Okay, then.

In most cases, I'd imagine, the mortgagees will end up having to write off the debt and walk away, declaring bankruptcy if necessary, and leave the mortgagors to foreclose on worthless assets.

That's not good for anyone.

 

[Rose Karuna]

It's a giant game of shifting real estate debt onto someone else. Eventually, like the survivors at Southside, someone ends up on the losing end and personal wealth is wiped out. I read a comment in the WaPo just last week from a couple nearing retirement who planned on buying property in the Florida Keys. They figured there was still enough time left in the Climate Change timeline for them to enjoy this lifelong dream. Okay, then.

The way that "condos and gated communities" are developed today in Florida remind me of a pyramid or ponzi scheme. The developers slap together a bunch of buildings on the cheapest land possible, using the cheapest materials possible and then leave the roads, maintenance and infrastructure to the HOAs. The owners (HOAs) of the new buildings spend the least amount possible on roads, maintenance and infrastructure and then keep passing the cost onto the next owner of the building. And so on, and so on.

The whole thing is going to eventually fall into a heap around someone.

 

[Beebo Brink]

The way that "condos and gated communities" are developed today in Florida remind me of a pyramid or ponzi scheme. The developers slap together a bunch of buildings on the cheapest land possible, using the cheapest materials possible and then leave the roads, maintenance and infrastructure to the HOAs.

One of the reasons they get away with this is that there is a relentless pressure to provide new housing. Population growth drives the intensity of the demand and everyone glosses over the risks because people need somewhere to live.

 

[Innula Zenovka]

Miami building collapse: Why is the rescue effort taking so long?

Emergency rescue teams have been working day and night since an apartment block collapsed.

www.bbc.com

 

[danielravennest]

Miami building collapse: Why is the rescue effort taking so long?

Emergency rescue teams have been working day and night since an apartment block collapsed.

www.bbc.com

It should be obvious that bringing in heavy equipment won't help any survivors, just kill them faster. If someone ended up in an air pocket in the rubble, big equipment is likely to shift the pile and crush them.

 

[Beebo Brink]

Apparently the plans are moving ahead for a controlled demolition of the standing portion of the condominium. The urgency is to bring it down before storms hit and wreak less controlled destruction. Also, removing the danger of that building's collapse will enable rescue operations to move faster.

Remainder of collapsed Florida condo to be demolished Sunday night or Monday morning as Elsa approaches

This is sad news for those survivors of the standing portion who still haven't gotten their pets out of the remaining units.

Florida condo tenants fled a collapsing building without their pets. Firefighters are trying to reunite them.