2020 Democratic Primary

[Pamela]

Jill Biden comes out swinging

...

www.palmerreport.com

How about we have Jill and Melania debate?

 

[Pamela]

Can I just say about Melania, she barely speaks English after all these years but that would not matter if she had advisors who could tell her that her signature Be Best is not correct English.

 

[Aribeth Zelin]

I'll try and remember to catch up, but re: Biden and a republican VP being delusional - those were his words, not mine.

I try and take people's words at face value.

 

[Salome]

I'll try and remember to catch up, but re: Biden and a republican VP being delusional - those were his words, not mine.

I try and take people's words at face value.

Context matters here. He was asked a direct question at a town hall if he’d *ever* consider choosing a Republican running mate and he said of course he would, but he couldn’t think of any he’d choose in the current climate because it would have to be someone that stood up against the current administration.

Let’s please not act naive about what he’s doing there. He’s being very smart politically and not alienating Never-Trumpers while also making it clear he’s not open to the current crop of GOP sycophants. He’s said over and over he wants to choose a POC and/or woman as his running mate when asked who he’d like as a running mate. The Republican running mate hypothetical only came up because it was directly asked.

It is delusional to think he’s seriously considering picking a Republican for a running mate and it’s very frustrating that the people stomping all over him for this (not you) are the same people who moan about how politically stupid it was for Hillary to make her “deplorables” comment.

Part of Biden’s pitch is always going to be that he believes in bipartisanship. This is extremely common in Dem politicians and even Sanders spends a lot of time talking about reaching and appealing to Republicans Trump voters.

 

[Cristalle]

Thanks. I'll take a look at it when I have the time, though I have to say that I don't that often have the time (or the inclination) to listen to hour-long podcasts.

I did take a quick look at the article and think it perpetuates a very dangerous mistake in conflating the equity someone has in their home with wealth.

Wealth is, generally, either something that generates income for you or something you readily sell or exchange for something else, and thinking of the equity in your home that way is a big mistake, to my mind, since it's neither.

Getting stuck with negative equity is, as Brits will know all too well, one of the disadvantages of being a homeowner (or having a mortgage) in a recession, quite simply, and while it's maybe fair to blame Obama for not helping out people stuck with negative equity, that's a completely separate issue from preventing the banks from failing (and how anyone can fault Obama for preventing the banks from failing is beyond me, because the consequences of not doing that would have been catastrophic for everyone -- if you think 2008 was bad, it would have been a hell of a lot worse if major US banks had started failing).

But, really, I'm not asking why people think a lot of traditional Democratic voters have failed to warm to Sanders -- that's not the problem.

I am asking, rather, both why the Sanders campaign finds this surprising in the first place, since I'd have thought they'd have been expecting the results based on their canvassing and on the confidential campaign surveys I assume they must have been running, and why they don't seem to engage with voters who, for whatever reason, prefer Biden or someone else, and find out from them what they see the problem with Sanders as being.

Sanders supporters talking about Democrats who support candidates other than Sanders seem to be talking about a group of people about whom they know very little and have to rely on experts and podcasts to explain to them, rather than about people they've been engaging either at party meetings or on the doorstep when they're out canvassing -- that bothers me, and it really doesn't bode well for the success of his campaign.

We measure wealth by assets and a house is a significant asset, and many people lost their houses in the crisis. I agree that relying on equity is a risky thing but the destruction of the value of the asset is a decline in wealth.

For the purposes of this video, I'm not thinking about Sanders per se but to inform regarding black politics and voting behavior, how Obama figures into the equation especially since a couple of articles the show references ask if Biden's success is because blacks gave Obama a pass on his legacy. And I tend to agree with him and the people calling in to say that they have.

It's surprising to an extent because the reported polling has been better than the Super Tuesday result. You're also assuming a lot about what people are finding when they are canvassing. Nothing has been posted about that. What makes you think they're not engaging with these voters? No one has posted anything to the contrary. You don't know what his operation looks like and it hasn't been discussed here in any meaningful way. I know that when I've gone out to canvass that I have been in black and brown communities.

As for what you see regarding the discussion between supporters, realize that half the time people on the Internet are talking past each other because we've hardened in our positions. But that's not necessarily a reflection of the discussions in the real world with canvassers in the public.

 

[Cristalle]

Super Tuesday Biden Victories Questioned by Election Watchers

 

[Essence Lumin]

There's one thing for sure. However I vote for the primary will make no difference since NJ is one of the last states to vote.

 

[Jolene Benoir]

This NY Post writer thinks in the event Biden loses his mind and is obviously unfit to be president by June, that the DNC will never accept Bernie so they will elect Hillary on the 2nd vote. Maybe not a perfect paraphrase but the link is below.

I think it's a plausible argument but would be a very bad move. They will piss off so many people, making them feel their vote meant nothing, that the nominee wasn't even on the ballot, it will be handing the election to the orange one.

Facepalms? It is just a hypothetical scenario, probably he'll be ok.

Another scenario is 100,000 people die here by June from covid 19. God knows what that would do the election.

Yes, facepalm. How in the world would you expect anything but that when you post something that "should Biden lose his mind" the DNC will replace him with HRC.

I mean, there just aren't enough wtf's for you posting something like that, even less for the fact that you believe it "plausible".

 

[Cristiano]

I was in the middle of writing a more fulsome answer to Innula, since she is more engaged in having a fruitful discussion than berating me.

I called you out because you were making a broad claim about voters, which included me and others in this thread and forum. You deserved to be berated in that moment. Innula is a saint to keep engaging you.

 

[Katheryne Helendale]

There's one thing for sure. However I vote for the primary will make no difference since NJ is one of the last states to vote.

It wasn't too long ago that California held its primary in June. I always felt that my vote didn't matter because the party nominations were pretty much already decided by then.

 

[Kamilah Hauptmann]

It wasn't too long ago that California held its primary in June. I always felt that my vote didn't matter because the party nominations were pretty much already decided by then.

In a weird sort of way I feel lucky as fuck. Next nom for me is Charles, then William, then I'll likely not be around for George.

 

[Salome]

I called you out because you were making a broad claim about voters, which included me and others in this thread and forum. You deserved to be berated in that moment. Innula is a saint to keep engaging you.

Innula’s sainthood is a given, but once these types make it clear they’re invested in promoting conspiracy and truther propaganda, how can you expect anything of merit, anyway?

 

[bubblesort]

They are ramming through a last minute debate format change to benefit Biden on March 15. No surprise. I mean, the debate is on CNN, so it's a joke, anyway. CNN debates are so scripted they're practically sitcoms. I haven't watched a CNN debate since the Donna Brazille incident. Nothing on a CNN debate matters to intelligent voters, any more than anything that happens on Fox News matters. The DNC leadership should be ashamed of themselves for continuing to allow them to host debates.

Personally, I like 2016 Biden. 2020 Biden is full of malarky, but 2016 Biden was sharp. I'm gonna do what 2016 Biden says, and vote for Bernie:

 

[Essence Lumin]

Innula’s sainthood is a given, but once these types make it clear they’re invested in promoting conspiracy and truther propaganda, how can you expect anything of merit, anyway?

Whenever I see the words These Types it raises a red flag to me.

 

[Kamilah Hauptmann]

Middle of the night can’t sleep thought that might make no sense. Need to write it down before it fades.

What with all the actual legitimate shit Joe Biden can be criticized for, why the Alex Jones wannabe diagnosis? Remembering that everything from the right is projection, and Trump is very clearly falling apart, a dual purpose for shining the spotlight on Biden is to deflect attention from Trump, and further divide the Democratic Party.

 

[Dakota Tebaldi]

No surprise. I mean, the debate is on CNN, so it's a joke, anyway.

Then who cares?

Legit: who cares? All of the "debates" are utterly pointless and don't make a difference, whether they're primary debates or general debates. They're pointless. I don't even watch them.

You want proof they're pointless? Warren absolutely destroyed Bloomberg at the last one - everyone agreed so - but Bloomberg outperformed Warren on Super Tuesday. Everyone says that Biden has done "poorly" in every debate he's attended so far, and yet he overwhelmingly surged in the polls after the last "debate loss".

In 2016 Trump was pathetic against Clinton in their debates during the general. It made no difference.

I say people need to stop worrying about these vapid spectacles.

 

[Brenda Archer]

Middle of the night can’t sleep thought that might make no sense. Need to write it down before it fades.

What with all the actual legitimate shit Joe Biden can be criticized for, why the Alex Jones wannabe diagnosis? Remembering that everything from the right is projection, and Trump is very clearly falling apart, a dual purpose for shining the spotlight on Biden is to deflect attention from Trump, and further divide the Democratic Party.

This makes sense to me. The Republicans have been willing to completely humiliate themselves just to do oppo on the Biden family.

It’s getting harder and harder to know what is fact, and what is noise, but everything coming from the Right is still transparently BS.

Someone on Twitter ran a sequence of pictures of Trump golfing just to show some of them might be a body double (different clothes and much less fat). If Trump dropped dead, would we be allowed to know?

I don’t even know if we can trust the voting machines. I don’t trust any recent information, honestly. Being online is like trying to find out what’s going on by talking to the other people at the bus stop, and some of the mass media isn’t much better.

 

[bubblesort]

Then who cares?

Legit: who cares? All of the "debates" are utterly pointless and don't make a difference, whether they're primary debates or general debates. They're pointless. I don't even watch them.

You want proof they're pointless? Warren absolutely destroyed Bloomberg at the last one - everyone agreed so - but Bloomberg outperformed Warren on Super Tuesday. Everyone says that Biden has done "poorly" in every debate he's attended so far, and yet he overwhelmingly surged in the polls after the last "debate loss".

In 2016 Trump was pathetic against Clinton in their debates during the general. It made no difference.

I say people need to stop worrying about these vapid spectacles.

You're right, I can't argue with that. I do think it still matters, but not because CNN debates are important, in and of themselves.

I think this is another example of the DNC 'putting their thumb on the scales', as one of my more traditional, party line towing democrat friends so nicely puts it.

This is important, because I don't think the Biden supporters actually support Biden. They aren't that stupid, they know he's a disaster. I think Biden supporters actually support the political machine behind Biden. That's the only reason the unfair debates matter to me. If you want to convince people to stop supporting Biden, attacking Biden himself is not the way to do it, because everybody does that. It's pedantic to point out his flaws at this point. The only thing that might change Biden supporters minds, IMHO, is showing them that the political machine behind Biden is corrupt.

 

[Dakota Tebaldi]

I think this is another example of the DNC 'putting their thumb on the scales', as one of my more traditional, party line towing democrat friends so nicely puts it.

That's kind of thin, though, claiming that this change "helps Biden". What is the big "Biden-cheating" change? Both Biden and Sanders can now sit. So what? It sounds like a fairly neutral courtesy toward both of the two older-than-dirt candidates that are now the only ones running. I realize the claim is that this is supposed to be disguising Biden's "terminal illness" or whatever; but in point of fact Biden stood for hours at the previous debates just fine, as he does during every one of his campaign rallies. He can obviously do it.

 

[bubblesort]

That's kind of thin, though, claiming that this change "helps Biden". What is the big "Biden-cheating" change? Both Biden and Sanders can now sit. So what? It sounds like a fairly neutral courtesy toward both of the two older-than-dirt candidates that are now the only ones running. I realize the claim is that this is supposed to be disguising Biden's "terminal illness" or whatever; but in point of fact Biden stood for hours at the previous debates just fine, as he does during every one of his campaign rallies. He can obviously do it.

You're right, it's not on the level of Shadow Corp running a primary. I don't think Biden has an illness or anything like that. It still sounds to me like they are going to throw soft balls at them for a couple of hours, because it's a town hall format. Town hall formats almost never give candidates a chance to really explain their policy positions, they are framed as questions from the every man. Joe 6 pack and crap like that. They are actually carefully scripted, and don't really go into any detail on policy, or a lot of subjects that low information voters don't know about. That format favors candidates who can't go into detail on things, like Biden. That's why Warren had such harsh criticism for the format early in her campaign. Well, she criticized it to hurt Fox's ability to sell ads, as well, but that's a long story... I agreed with her when she said town halls are bad.