2020 Democratic Primary

[Brenda Archer]

Exactly!

I know it’s childish of me, but

Told you so
Told you so
Told you so

The idea that the Republicans are going to treat Biden as anything but a commie socialist is pure fantasy.

We’re all “socialist” now, I think if Bloomberg was still in they’d say it about him too.

 

[Cristalle]

Why not? Haven't you heard? We're Bernie Bros. That means that no matter what we do, these Biden extremists will say we are going 'scorched earth' and hyperbolic crap like that. I wasn't being disrespectful, I just think the never-bernie crowd are racist and loony. People here just reinforce that for me. Somebody should tell them that. I mean, look at them, they're all self righteous, like supporting Biden is a great thing or something. This emperor has no clothes. Somebody has to say it.

Has anybody here tried to make the argument that Biden isn't racist? That he isn't speaking word salad? That the Patriot Act was a great piece of legislation that needs to be protected? School bussing is a bad idea? Mass incarceration in private prisons is a good thing? The Iraq war was a great idea? If you can't make those arguments, you don't actually support what Biden does. You oppose Bernie. That's fine... but why oppose Bernie?

I have no problem telling individuals to fuck off. But attacking voters - and especially our elders - as a group is a bad idea. Please note that I do not consider truthful representations of a candidate's bad record as attacks. However, the truism is that candidates have to earn votes, and looking at the macro issues, the candidate needs to adjust accordingly. Attacking voters doesn't make sense - which is why the continual Bernie Bro smear is similarly stupid. If they think voter shaming is the way to win after another 4 years of Trump, which is likely, they have another think coming. It's not Russia. Should never have done it after 2016, and people haven't learned.

Bernie's job is to make people understand that Biden is not a safe choice: not if you care about the climate, when he refuses to stop fracking because he takes fossil fuel money, and only proposes half-measures in the face of a planetary emergency. Anyone who is a "climate alarmist" and yet votes for Biden really isn't. Not if you care about public health, as the coronavirus may be about to make extremely clear. That our savage, bifurcated patchwork system that lets tens of thousands of people die annually is not going to be sufficient in the face of a pandemic. That the fight for 15 is going to remain a patchwork instead of national, because the former "Senator from MBNA" is extremely comfortable with screwing the middle class and poor in favor of large financial interests, like the bankruptcy bill. That Biden will likely put Social Security on the table in another "Grand Bargain" and thus hurting seniors instead of lifting the cap, without the Tea Party belligerence to save us again. He will do bupkiss for income inequality, and the sad fact is that the savage status quo will do nothing for black people to actually advance. No debt relief, no universal healthcare, no free college, no universal childcare. All the Warren supporters proudly going to Biden despite him being the polar opposite of her policies can be proud of that too.

But Bernie's biggest job is to start tooting his horn about his achievements to counter the lie that he's done nothing and the fact that unlike the rhetoric about his reputation, he's had a long history of bipartisan compromising because he is not so impractical as to not take half a loaf. He was extremely effective during Republican-controlled Congresses by using the Amendments strategy to get things done. His vote on Biden's racist crime bill is another example of that, because he cared about the Violence Against Women Act, despite the potential damage it might do to people of color. He's not as radical as people think; aside from the fact that all he's asking for is things that other advanced nations have, he's accepted things like the Affordable Care Act (and wrote portions to improve it with the community clinic funding).

But some people are willing to see half-measures and lying about his past as pragmatism; truth is, they are voting for him out of spite to their "Bernie Bro" neighbors. The idea that "you're mean on the internet, therefore fuck taking decisive climate action and getting universal healthcare" is inane politics, but here we are.

 

[Jolene Benoir]

I missed that. I have already stated multiple times that I wouldn't vote for Trump, ffs.

As for getting what I want, if Biden is the nominee, that is not going to happen, for the most part, either way.

I don't think you did miss it, as you responded to it. I was specifically responding to your post toward him stating that you are "on the same side". Are you? I already know that you would not vote for Trump. How can you consider someone who would "on your side"?

If Biden is the nominee, you may not get all you want, that is true enough. But, imo, the very same may happen with Bernie. Bernie cannot wave his hand and make all of his promises come true, you know. It would require the Senate and House, as well. Some people think that if he is the nominee the task of getting voters to put in place people in both houses that could help Bernie achieve his goals would be quite a monumental one. I cannot say either way, as I think getting the Senate is nigh impossible no matter who the nominee happens to be.

So far, the Trumpists haven't particularly gone hard at Bernie. There have been some attacks calling him a socialist, that his ideas would make us go bankrupt, yada yada. Should he be the nominee, that's going to go full blown, with probably some dogwhistles toward anti-semitism thrown in for good measure. Do you think that people who are on Social Security, using Obamacare but have been brainwashed into believing those things to be un-American and good for them, but bad for everyone else are going to change their stripes, become informed and make distinction between cold war era propaganda and what Bernie is offering? I don't have that much faith in the electorate.

 

[Cristalle]

I don't think you did miss it, as you responded to it. I was specifically responding to your post toward him stating that you are "on the same side". Are you? I already know that you would not vote for Trump. How can you consider someone who would "on your side"?

I missed where he said he would vote for Trump.

Further, I'm well aware that no matter who is in office that I may not get what I want, legislatively. But with Biden I will not get anyone who will even advocate for it. I want a fighter for my interests and that sure as fuck ain't gonna happen. The most I get with Biden if by the grace of God he got elected is the chance for Ruth Bader Ginsburg to retire and a slight curtailment of the environmental damage Trump unleashed.

 

[Anya Ristow]

And on that note, this article summarizes my dread.
Sanders is a terribly risky nominee. But so is Biden.

What they are unlikely to say out loud is that this isn’t about Biden’s inspiring vision or compelling personality, so much as their fears that if Sen. Bernie Sanders (I-Vt.) were the nominee, he’d lose to President Trump. Biden, for all his weaknesses, looks like a better bet.

There are some who think that. But the pundits and their handlers, including WaPo? They are trying harder to defeat Sanders than Trump. They will continue to do just fine under Trump. Hell, business is good under Trump.

 

[Pamela]

And on that note, this article summarizes my dread.
Sanders is a terribly risky nominee. But so is Biden.

I can only speak from my own experience, but I was pretty nervous about any candidate until the Biden coalition formed around him (which I had been advocating here since I read Tom Friedman’s article advocating it). For many of us that supercharged his candidacy. My anxiety level went way down, people poured out to vote for not just Joe but his Team of Rivals.

That’s not to say they all can serve in his cabinet since we can’t spare any senators but they damn sure ought to have his ear.

 

[Beebo Brink]

Realistically speaking, if a Democratic (any Dem) wins the presidency in 2020, their first term will be spent trying to put the government back together again, not to mention strengthening our strained foreign alliances. That's my baseline expectation for 2021-2024. Get that done and I'll consider the 1st term a success. Anything beyond that will be gravy.

So if Biden can just hold it together long enough to get to Inauguration Day, then I'll breathe a sigh of relief. Biden has the long term experience and stature to kickstart a rebuilding effort. Even if it's just to pick the team that does it and then lets them loose, that will be enough.

And if he has a strong VP, like Kamala Harris, then Biden can go drool in the corner for all I care. With luck that choice will be someone I would have enthusiastically voted for in the primary (but never got a chance to do so).

 

[Aribeth Zelin]

I can only speak from my own experience, but I was pretty nervous about any candidate until the Biden coalition formed around him (which I had been advocating here since I read Tom Friedman’s article advocating it). For many of us that supercharged his candidacy. My anxiety level went way down, people poured out to vote for not just Joe but his Team of Rivals.

That’s not to say they all can serve in his cabinet since we can’t spare any senators but they damn sure ought to have his ear.

I'm glad someone's anxiety is way low - I foresee, though, that Biden and Bernie are both poor choices, that Biden is going to pick a GOP running mate and try to appeal to the mythological 'center' independents and moderate republicans. And like Shiloh, I'm rarely wrong on these things.

 

[Jolene Benoir]

I missed where he said he would vote for Trump.

Further, I'm well aware that no matter who is in office that I may not get what I want, legislatively. But with Biden I will not get anyone who will even advocate for it. I want a fighter for my interests and that sure as fuck ain't gonna happen. The most I get with Biden if by the grace of God he got elected is the chance for Ruth Bader Ginsburg to retire and a slight curtailment of the environmental damage Trump unleashed.

Ruth Bader Ginsburg alone is a damn good reason to vote for him should he be the nominee. Too many claimed democrats ignored the warnings from many of us last time and look what we have on the Supreme Court now. Look at this recent decision and tell me that with two HRC appointed judges it would have happened.

Supreme Court says parents can't sue US Border Patrol agent who fatally shot teenage son in Mexico

But, you really believe that is all you would get? No cessation of locking children in cages and other inhumane practices? No utterly corrupt and morally bankrupt Attorney General who treats the DOJ as the agency responsible for hiding the current president's crimes? No removal of all of the, again, utterly corrupt and morally bankrupt, administration officials across the board who have been putting in place draconian/theocratic rules while they rob the house blind? No institution of actual diplomats at the State Dept? Would he not attempt to institute single-payer?

Is he going to wink and nod at nazis while they cast BLM as terrorists? Would his administration direct attacks upon minorities of all stripes along with putting such attacks upon their liberties into law?

I'm sorry, but you have your wishes, and I largely agree that the nation needs what Bernie is selling, yet more than anything I want a complete cessation of all of the evils that Trump and his underlings have committed against our nation, our democracy, and our people, alongside future evils he will surely commit. He has already stated he is going to tackle SS/Medicare during his 2nd term, even as they have already removed hundreds of thousands from food stamps, disability and so forth.

I am not confident that Bernie can deliver on his promises. I've already cast my vote, so my say doesn't really matter so much anymore as I will vote for whomever wins the nomination, but I'm beginning to feel that should Bernie get the nomination we are going to have another Trump term.

Let's face it, either nominee is going to need every single vote they can get from both what has been derided as us old folks (apparently anyone over 30) pragmatic voters and the far left. Perhaps the two of them on the ticket together could gather that, but I doubt that would ever happen.

 

[Pamela]

I'm glad someone's anxiety is way low - I foresee, though, that Biden and Bernie are both poor choices, that Biden is going to pick a GOP running mate and try to appeal to the mythological 'center' independents and moderate republicans. And like Shiloh, I'm rarely wrong on these things.

1. I did not say my anxiety level was low, did I now? I will put the strength and depth of my anxiety level up against anyone’s.

2. The idea that Biden is going to pick a Republican VP is, to be polite, delusional.

3. He doesn’t need to pick a Republican to appeal the center or moderates, the coalition has it covered.

4. You and Shiloh could be making big money, should you want to use your powers for either good or evi.

 

[Innula Zenovka]

Since both Trump and his Democratic opponent, whoever he is, are both of an age where Covid-19 carries with it a serious risk of death, it certainly can't be guaranteed that both, or either, of them will actually be around to contest the election come November.

I wonder what contingency plans the two parties are making in case the worst happens.

 

[Cristalle]

Ruth Bader Ginsburg alone is a damn good reason to vote for him should he be the nominee. Too many claimed democrats ignored the warnings from many of us last time and look what we have on the Supreme Court now. Look at this recently decision and tell me that with two HRC appointed judges it would have happened.

Supreme Court says parents can't sue US Border Patrol agent who fatally shot teenage son in Mexico

But, you really believe that is all you would get? No cessation of locking children in cages and other inhumane practices? No utterly corrupt and morally bankrupt Attorney General who treats the DOJ as the agency responsible for hiding the current president's crimes? No removal of all of the, again, utterly corrupt and morally bankrupt, administration officials across the board who have been putting in place draconian/theocratic rules while they rob the house blind? No institution of actual diplomats at the State Dept? Would he not attempt to institute single-payer?

Is he going to wink and nod at nazis while they cast BLM as terrorists? Would his administration direct attacks upon minorities of all stripes along with putting such attacks upon their liberties into law?

I'm sorry, but you have your wishes, and I largely agree that the nation needs what Bernie is selling, yet more than anything I want a complete cessation of all of the evils that Trump and his underlings have committed against our nation, our democracy, and our people, alongside future evils he will surely commit. He has already stated he is going to tackle SS/Medicare during his 2nd term, even as they have already removed hundreds of thousands from food stamps, disability and so forth.

I am not confident that Bernie can deliver on his promises. I've already cast my vote, so my say doesn't really matter so much anymore as I will vote for whomever wins the nomination, but I'm beginning to feel that should Bernie get the nomination we are going to have another Trump term.

Let's face it, either nominee is going to need every single vote they can get from both what is derided as old, centrists and the far left. Perhaps the two of them on the ticket together could gather that, but I doubt that would ever happen.

Yes, that's why I will hold my nose and vote for Biden if he's the nominee. But he won't get my money or my time. Let him use the billions he'll get from Bloomberg to do that.

And do I really believe that's all I will get? Pretty much.

Those inhumane practices occurred under Obama and Biden, Trump only magnified them and brought that to light. But the media and the public buried heads in the sand because it was Obama.

Morally bankrupt Attorney General? Okay, we won't have *that* but morally deficient? Highly likely. Eric Holder hasn't prosecuted anyone for the financial crisis, no more than bit players, Obama and Biden let the war criminals take a pass.

It's Obama and Biden who stepped up the war on whistleblowers, using the Espionage Act to try and pummel people into not revealing the crimes of the National Security State and also harassing journalists as well. Democrats just willingly reauthorized the Patriot Act, so the surveillance state continues apace.

I'll accept that we'll get a better Department of Education but I don't see the list of benefits of a Biden administration as being rather exhaustive.

I know that getting Bernie's agenda over is a huge haul and I accept that risk. But I'd rather take the risk of more than guaranteeting nothing.

I also am fairly sure that if Biden is the nominee, the youth vote will be depressed and we are certain to get more Trump, especially when Biden struggles to put coherent sentences together against him in a debate, to defend his crappy record.

 

[Brenda Archer]

Since both Trump and his Democratic opponent, whoever he is, are both of an age where Covid-19 carries with is a serious risk of death, it certainly can't be guaranteed that both, or either, of them will actually be around to contest the election come November.

I wonder what contingency plans the two parties are making in case the worst happens.

Biden/Buttigieg would be a strong ticket IMO.

 

[Pamela]

Biden/Buttigieg would be a strong ticket IMO.

or Susan Rice

I am partial to Beto but wrong gender and race.

In any case, I know what black voters expect and deserve.

 

[Beebo Brink]

Since both Trump and his Democratic opponent, whoever he is, are both of an age where Covid-19 carries with is a serious risk of death, it certainly can't be guaranteed that both, or either, of them will actually be around to contest the election come November.

Not only are they both in high risk categories of age and health issues, but they're both constantly traveling around the country and mingling with crowds. So yeah, this scenario has crossed my mind more than once over the past few weeks.

 

[Aeon Jiminy]

I'm glad someone's anxiety is way low - I foresee, though, that Biden and Bernie are both poor choices, that Biden is going to pick a GOP running mate and try to appeal to the mythological 'center' independents and moderate republicans. And like Shiloh, I'm rarely wrong on these things.

I've heard a lot of speculation about Stacey Abrams for Governor as a Biden VP pick. I don't think that Biden advisers would let him make that Clinton/Kaine mistake. I think Abrams might be a really good fit for Joe. Like Jill Biden said, it's going to take at least a spoonful of sugar to swallow that medicine down.

 

[Cristalle]

or Susan Rice

I am partial to Beto but wrong gender and race.

In any case, I know what black voters expect and deserve.

What American Descendants of Slaves , what those voters deserve, they will not get for a generation, at best. What most black Americans (so far) voted for was more pandering but no economic investment. That's the status quo. That's not what they deserve, but fear does funny things.

 

[Sid]

White House: Luxury nursing home for a too old for the job white dude.
That is the reality for the US for the next 4 years.
Only the color of the hair may vary and the people who use him as their sock puppet.

 

[Pamela]

What American Descendants of Slaves , what those voters deserve, they will not get for a generation, at best. What most black Americans (so far) voted for was more pandering but no economic investment. That's the status quo. That's not what they deserve, but fear does funny things.

So you don’t think black voters deserve a black vp who may well end up pres. Because they voted for pandering.

 

[Jolene Benoir]

I also am fairly sure that if Biden is the nominee, the youth vote will be depressed and we are certain to get more Trump, especially when Biden struggles to put coherent sentences together against him in a debate, to defend his crappy record.

The youth who couldn't be bothered to get out and vote for him on Super Tuesday are going to do what on election day?

Many young voters sat out Super Tuesday, contributing to Bernie Sanders' losses

The Bernie Sanders Youth Revolution Was Nowhere to Be Found on Super Tuesday