WTF Sh*t's F*cked Up and Bullsh*t - a "Who Cares" thread for news

Arkady Arkright

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My daily-driver small car is 20 years old, and I bought it when it was 2. It's long-since paid off, nobody wants to steal it or thinks I have something valuable inside, and I know it has been well taken care of.
Same here - my Mazda MX5 is 20 years old, I've had it for 16 of those years, and our other car (bought 9 years ago) is 14 yrs old. I never sell or part exchange my old cars, just drive them till they fail the MOT, then get another second-hand one.
 
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Argent Stonecutter

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People slamming Google for being "evil" really have no sense of proportion. They've fallen, but look at the fucking competition. They're still at worst neutral and only barely. Get back to me when they're anywhere in the vicinity of Facebook or Amazon or classic Microsoft.
 
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Innula Zenovka

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Pretty grim stuff, including accounts (by the US interrogators themselves) of detainees being tortured not because they were thought to have any more valuable information to disclose but simply for demonstration and training purposes.
 

Dakota Tebaldi

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People slamming Google for being "evil" really have no sense of proportion. They've fallen, but look at the fucking competition. They're still at worst neutral and only barely. Get back to me when they're anywhere in the vicinity of Facebook or Amazon or classic Microsoft.
Dude Google's privacy-invasion practices are identical in every relevant way to Facebook's, and both of them passed up "classic" Microsoft in the evil department a decade ago. To begin with, as an actual business Google is first and foremost an personal-data mining-and-brokering, ad-selling, and ad delivery company, and as a result literally every single online, software, and hardware product or service they produce or offer is designed first and foremost to serve or enable those primary goals, which makes it fundamentally more "evil" than a company whose business model is making and selling software for its own sake no matter how market-dominant they get. But, I realize that might be just a matter of opinion.

Secondly, Windows 10's "telemetry gathering" is a pale, pathetic joke next to the privacy-invading nightmares that are the Android phone (and no, you can't really turn off Google's data-mining on Android) and the Google Home Assistant, with the bonus that all the data those things gather is monetized (because remember, Google is primarily an ad company). And no, Google doesn't get any slack just because competitor Apple's ecosystem is equally as nightmarish.

As for "embrace, extend, extinguish" - surely you're not going to try to say that Google doesn't do this, or "isn't as bad as Microsoft" at this. The list of Google's acquisitions is as long as Microsoft's despite the fact that Google has existed for less than half as long. Google enthusiastically embraces this business model and has from day one.
 

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Dude Google's privacy-invasion practices are identical in every relevant way to Facebook's, and both of them passed up "classic" Microsoft in the evil department a decade ago.
Data mining is the least of Facebook's sins. Their crooked secret advertising scheme was key to Trump's elections, and their "real name" policy may have gotten people killed. Meanwhile Microsoft basically created the virus epidemic in the '90s by merging Internet Explorer and the desktop in a criminal scheme to avoid complying with their agreement with the Justice Department.

And Microsoft didn't just buy companies and put them on the shelf, like they did with Interix, they outright stole technology from partners. There are dozens of companies they just copied and outfought them in the courts or paid them off as a cost of doing business. This isn't just aggressive business dealings, this is stuff that should have officers of the company in jail.

And I notice you didn't even TRY to defend Amazon's warehouses.
 
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Dakota Tebaldi

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Data mining is the least of Facebook's sins. Their crooked secret advertising scheme was key to Trump's elections, and their "real name" policy may have gotten people killed.
Google played just as much of a role in Trump's election as Facebook did. To begin with their search engine is notoriously manipulatable and has been famously and frequently exploited by right-wing extremists in the past; but more importantly, Google's YouTube has served a far more vital role in recruiting and radicalizing alt-righters of all stripes. While Facebook's tools allowed alt-right groups and propaganda outlets to identify, reach out to, and network with Facebook users who their data collection had showed to already be right-leaning, YouTube has actually built legions of brand new white nationalist/supremacists, misogynists, homophobes, and other types of scum out of people who had started out as blank slates, due to its "suggestion" algorithms gradually feeding more politicized and more extreme content over time to people who started out simply watching neutral stuff like video game let's plays and anime news vlogs. YouTube was the primary nexus for the growth of GamerGate; it allows alt-righters to push propaganda lectures to all viewers in the guise of "advertisements" for a fake university; and its lip-service attempts at gaining control of rampant Nazi-use have actually been harmful because Google have allowed themselves to be successfully lobbied into demonetizing LGBT-positive content as "inappropriate" right alongside the white-nationalist material, in the interests of "fairness". And that's not even getting into the whole multi-faceted child exploitation problem that YouTube has created, which Google has all but declared they don't even know how to fix and has instead been surreptitiously trying to rally its users against US government regulators for noticing. There are people actually demanding that COPPA protections for children be weakened in deferrence to YouTube's ad monetization practices right now, thanks to Google actively trying to manipulate that conversation for its own benefit.


Meanwhile Microsoft basically created the virus epidemic in the '90s by merging Internet Explorer and the desktop in a criminal scheme to avoid complying with their agreement with the Justice Department.

And Microsoft didn't just buy companies and put them on the shelf, like they did with Interix, they outright stole technology from partners. There are dozens of companies they just copied and outfought them in the courts or paid them off as a cost of doing business. This isn't just aggressive business dealings, this is stuff that should have officers of the company in jail.
Corporations stealing ideas from other corporations twenty years ago certainly isn't defensible; but it utterly pales in comparison to what we're dealing with today which is the monetization of people's personal lives and thoughts. Never in the highest heights (or lowest lows, if you fancy) of Microsoft's monopolistic software-selling practices did it ever have the intrusive, violative, damaging, and inextricable reach into the minutest, most granular details of people's personal and private lives that Google and Facebook have striven for and achieved. Nobody can blame a Windows PC monopoly or Microsoft Office for allowing an election to be hijacked; no product of Microsoft's has been exploited as a tool of large-scale directed social manipulation. They don't have the tools or the reach; Microsoft was late to the social-media game and failed every time they tried to get into it.

And I notice you didn't even TRY to defend Amazon's warehouses.
I never brought up Amazon. Their horrendous exploitation of low-wage labor puts them in a different category, comparable more to say Walmart than to tech companies like Google. As a data-mining operation Amazon is the same thing as Google and Facebook, with the only real exception being that Amazon exploits the data all by itself to deliver its own ads, whereas Google and Facebook sell the data on the open market for third-parties to buy and use to target their ads.
 

Argent Stonecutter

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Google played just as much of a role in Trump's election as Facebook did. To begin with their search engine is notoriously manipulatable and has been famously and frequently exploited by right-wing extremists in the past; but more importantly, Google's YouTube has served a far more vital role in recruiting and radicalizing alt-righters of all stripes.
Google doesn't allow you to create youtube videos that can only be seen by specific advretising groups. We *still* don't know where Facebook's targeted ads go to because people who are likely to report them weren't targeted. Facebook was intentionally creating their secret campaigns and keeping them secret was an actual marketing point. That's evil by intent.

Corporations stealing ideas from other corporations twenty years ago certainly isn't defensible; but it utterly pales in comparison to what we're dealing with today
Again, intent matters. Microsoft was knowingly and intentionally doing evil. Being abused by third parties is not intentional evil.

And the rich viral ecosystem today is a direct and predictable (and predicted) outcome of their browser-desktop integration.

I never brought up Amazon.
No, I did. I also brought up Facebook.

Their horrendous exploitation of low-wage labor puts them in a different category, comparable more to say Walmart than to tech companies like Google.
Yes, Walmart is another. Add it to the list.

As a data-mining operation
Again, that's the least evil aspect here. Evil is not just outcome, it's intent.
 
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Dakota Tebaldi

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Google doesn't allow you to create youtube videos that can only be seen by specific advretising groups. We *still* don't know where Facebook's targeted ads go to because people who are likely to report them weren't targeted. Facebook was intentionally creating their secret campaigns and keeping them secret was an actual marketing point. That's evil by intent.
You don't need to spend so much time trying to prove Facebook is malignant; neither one of us disputes that. The point of contention is Google.

Again, intent matters. Microsoft was knowingly and intentionally doing evil. Being abused by third parties is not intentional evil.
Google is not JUST "being abused by third parties". Google made money on Gamergate and YouTube Nazis, which is why they refused to do anything about the problem (because "speech") until the public got together and brought the sponsors into it (i.e. "adpocalypse"). And the "refusing to do anything" was actually that - intentional refusal, not just neglect or logistical inability. Google established very narrow criteria for what counted as "bad enough" for a video to be removed and selectively enforced them, and as a result hate-group promotional propaganda, directed harassment campaigns against individuals, and misinformation campaigns were allowed to flourish while Google watched and let the advertiser money roll in. Like Facebook, Google had a financial incentive to willingly allow themselves to "be abused by third parties" and not do anything about the situation. That is certainly intentional evil.

With regard to the YouTube COPPA violations, this was also intentional evil by Google because they were consciously lying in order to cover it up. Google told the government for years that it didn't fall under COPPA because children "weren't a target audience", and as proof they pointed out that you need to be over 13 to have a Google (thus, YouTube) account. Firstly, that's duplicitous all by itself - you don't actually need a Google account to watch videos, or be mined for the purpose of targeting ads - but it turns out that YouTube hosts countless channels that are very obviously aimed solely at young children. On top of it, Google's own (illegally-collected, in the case of children) data told them explicitly how many children were watching YouTube videos, and they shared this data with advertisers as a selling point, allowing them to target ads specifically at the child-viewer demographic in direct defiance of COPPA. That isn't "being abused by third parties" either; that's Google willfully breaking a federal child-protection law because it was lucrative.

When it comes to the rise of the alt-right, Facebook and YouTube were both key components in the same overarching process, two sides of the same coin. Google, via YouTube's suggestion algorithms, turned normal people into bigots and then into anti-social-justice activists by serving them a continuous feed of more- and more-extreme propaganda videos; the new connections these individuals then began seeking out on social media as a result, allowed Sorting Hats like Facebook's data-analysis to place them in House Nazi where they could be directly targeted by white supremacist organizations for recruitment and radicalization. Neither Facebook nor Google had a political stake in this process - all that mattered to them was that they made money by letting it happen.
 
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Dakota Tebaldi

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It's not a morality problem; evidently, the Post has internal rules about not posting the names of emailers on social media.
 
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Innula Zenovka

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I see her union is supporting her.


I feel sorry for her at one level, since -- to my mind, at least -- she made a catastrophic error of judgement in choosing to retweet the piece, but what's descended on her head as a result is surely disproportionate.

On the other hand, I can see why the Washington Post are furious with her, though it might have been far better, and also far more humane, to put her on paid leave until the fuss dies down, with a strong recommendation she stays low for a few days and gets out of town for her own safety after the threats she's been receiving.

Then, when everyone has had a chance to take stock once the immediate furore has died down, they could tell her, if it then still seemed appropriate, that they wanted her resignation for dropping them in like that, without warning anyone.