The Trump Presidency, Season 2

[Innula Zenovka]

Can the president send these men to labour camp in El Salvador without reference to the courts. And:
Can the executive can ignore a court order

The answer to both, unfortunately is: He can, until someone finds a way to stop him.

Federal court decisions are enforced -by- the Executive Branch. If the president tells his administration to follow his own orders instead of the courts, he can back that up by firing anyone who refuses.

It then falls to his cabinet to invoke the 25th to declare him incompetent (and many avian primates will sally forth from my rectal orifice before THAT happens.)

Which leaves congress to impeach the him and hold a trial (I think the chief justice is supposed to preside over the trial held by the senate). Which is going to require a blue landslide in the midterms.

And if he refuses to leave after being symbolically removed from office... and the federal agents responsible for physically removing him from the white house also refuse to remove him... then what happens?

We're definitely in the -dumbest- timeline, not just the darkest.

While the president may well enjoy all sorts of immunities, to what extent do these extend to cabinet members, departmental heads and civil servants who carry out his instructions in defiance of a court order?

Is "I was only obeying orders" a defence?

 

[Casey Pelous]

It feels like all of our systems are based around the idea that a leader will follow the rules and act in good faith. We need a system able to shut down and enforce rulings against a bad actor.

There's an old saying in accounting; ANY system can be defeated by collusion. Out of three branches of government, 2/3 + ~4/9 are in lockstep collusion, thanks to the infinite wisdom of the majority of the American electorate, who either voted for this or sat it out, saying, "Meh, whatever y'all decide is fine with me."

We're hanging by the very thin thread of a handful of votes on the Supreme Court. That's most likely a temporary situation. It looks like when that snaps, we'll freefall into the abyss of totalitarianism.

 

[Casey Pelous]

While the president may well enjoy all sorts of immunities, to what extent do these extend to cabinet members, departmental heads and civil servants who carry out his instructions in defiance of a court order?

Is "I was only obeying orders" a defence?

It worked fine for the Nazis until they weren't in power.

It seems pretty clear that a whole lot of illegal shenanigans have gone and are going on, but the GOP's moral code seems to consist almost completely of "Yeah, well, who's gonna stop me?" or, conversely, "Yeah, well, who's gonna make me?"

We're already at the point where the executive branch effectively wads up a court order and tosses it in the wastebasket with an "Oopsie!" then demands the judge's head on a platter. It must be a joyful time for those who have long been bothered by that whole pesky "due process/rule of law" business.

Long term, maybe there will be a reckoning. The Reich seems to be betting there will not.

 

[Bartholomew Gallacher]

The Trump administration fired most of the board of USIP, the US institute of peace.

In case you don't know it: USIP is a congressionally funded independent nonprofit that works to advance U.S. values in conflict resolution, ending wars and promoting good governance.

DOGE has expressed interest in the organization for weeks but had been rebuffed by lawyers who argued that the institute’s status protected it from the kind of reorganization that is occurring in other federal agencies.

On Friday, DOGE members arrived with two FBI agents but left after the institute’s lawyer told them of USIP’s “private and independent status,” the organization said in a statement that day.

Chief of security Colin O’Brien said police on Monday helped DOGE members enter the building and that the private security team for the organization had its contract canceled.

The nonprofit says it was created by Congress in 1984 as an “independent nonprofit corporation,“ and it does not meet U.S. Code definitions of “government corporation,” “government-controlled corporation” or “independent establishment.”

Trump administration guts board of US Institute of Peace. Group says DOGE arrives

The Trump administration has fired most of the board of the U.S. Institute of Peace and sent its new leader into the Washington headquarters of the independent organization.

apnews.com

 

[Bartholomew Gallacher]

This is probably about trans woman Lia Thomas, who joined the ladies' swim team of PennU.

 

[Jopsy Pendragon]

While the president may well enjoy all sorts of immunities, to what extent do these extend to cabinet members, departmental heads and civil servants who carry out his instructions in defiance of a court order?

Is "I was only obeying orders" a defence?

Iirc, the process for removing cabinet members is basically the same as removing the president.. impeachment by the house, then trial by the senate. Given that congress rolled over and approved these egregiously problematic appointees, is very unlikely they'll admit they made a mistake.

I only mention the cabinet because using the 25th to declare a president unfit requires the VP and a majority of the cabinet to agree... and each of them are likely counting on a blanket pardon, and just smart enough not to jeopardize their chance at getting one.

 

[Free]

Nothing ominous about hanging it with black curtains, is there.

 

[Innula Zenovka]

It worked fine for the Nazis until they weren't in power.

It seems pretty clear that a whole lot of illegal shenanigans have gone and are going on, but the GOP's moral code seems to consist almost completely of "Yeah, well, who's gonna stop me?" or, conversely, "Yeah, well, who's gonna make me?"

We're already at the point where the executive branch effectively wads up a court order and tosses it in the wastebasket with an "Oopsie!" then demands the judge's head on a platter. It must be a joyful time for those who have long been bothered by that whole pesky "due process/rule of law" business.

Long term, maybe there will be a reckoning. The Reich seems to be betting there will not.

The British Home Secretary certainly has wide-ranging powers to deport foreign nationals on a variety of grounds but, while I am by not means an expert in this field, in all cases the decision can be appealed against at a specialist tribunal and (generally) is also subject to judicial review, at least in most circumstances.

Much as some recent Conservative Home Secretaries must have wished they could, there's no way a British Home Secretary could simply order someone's deportation, and much less a couple of hundred someones' deportation, and have it happen without a court's approval if the deportees didn't want to leave.

 

[Innula Zenovka]

Iirc, the process for removing cabinet members is basically the same as removing the president.. impeachment by the house, then trial by the senate. Given that congress rolled over and approved these egregiously problematic appointees, is very unlikely they'll admit they made a mistake.

I only mention the cabinet because using the 25th to declare a president unfit requires the VP and a majority of the cabinet to agree... and each of them are likely counting on a blanket pardon, and just smart enough not to jeopardize their chance at getting one.

I was thinking more of what happens if a cabinet member or head of an agency acts unlawfully by defying a court order. If the judge then finds them in contempt, what happens next?

 

[Free]

Putin basically put Trump on hold for over an hour for an "important" call between them. I wonder what the wait music was.

Putin made Trump wait, then strung him along – it’s clear his war aims in Ukraine have not changed

Vladimir Putin and Donald Trump agreed on a very limited ceasefire in Ukraine, making clear the Russian leader has no real ambition to stop the fighting.

theconversation.com

 

[Free]

I'm starting to think we need a "The Musk Presidency, Season 1" thread.

U.S. Says Social Security Recipients Need to Visit Offices to Get Benefits as DOGE Closes Offices Nationwide

The policy shift comes after an internal memo leaked casting doubt on the effectiveness of the agency's strategy.

gizmodo.com

As Elon Musk’s DOGE targets the Social Security Administration for cuts and reorganization, the agency is rolling out new rules for benefit recipients that could spur chaos and dysfunction at the agency.

This week, the agency announced that it will no longer allow new benefit recipients to verify their identities over the phone. Instead, those participants will either have to use an online ID verification software or, if that doesn’t work, make a visit to a government field office to do it in person. Similarly, returning benefit recipients who want to update their direct deposit information will either have to pass the online ID verification process or visit a government office.

 

[Cindy Claveau]

While the president may well enjoy all sorts of immunities, to what extent do these extend to cabinet members, departmental heads and civil servants who carry out his instructions in defiance of a court order?

Is "I was only obeying orders" a defence?

Trump relies on his power of Presidential pardon to keep his minions out of jail.

 

[Bartholomew Gallacher]

Goldfinger loves gooold... so Trump wants to go with Elon to Fort Knox to see if the gold is still there. This one makes me really wonder why gold lover Trump didn't visit the place already during his 1st term.

 

[Bartholomew Gallacher]

ICE is behaving so badly, as well as TSA, that the MIT now has issued a travel warning:

We are writing to encourage our international students and scholars on temporary visas and U.S. permanent residents (green card holders) to consider postponing or delaying international travel, whether personal, academic, or professional, until additional guidance is available.

With spring break approaching, some of you might be considering travel or have already made plans to travel. Whether your plans are imminent or farther off, it is important to bear in mind that changes in visa processing, reentry requirements, and country-specific restrictions can be implemented quickly and without ample warning for travelers.

Update to international travel guidance | MIT Organization Chart

orgchart.mit.edu

 

[Sid]

Nothing ominous about hanging it with black curtains, is there.

They ran out of golden curtains?

 

[Noodles]

Goldfinger loves gooold... so Trump wants to go with Elon to Fort Knox to see if the gold is still there. This one makes me really wonder why gold lover Trump didn't visit the place already during his 1st term.

There is a great opportunity to do something funny while he is there with locked gold cages.

 

[Free]

They ran out of golden curtains?

The White House's chief un-woke designer convinced Trump they offset the gold of the frame in a beautifully dictatorial way.

 

[Khamon]

While the president may well enjoy all sorts of immunities, to what extent do these extend to cabinet members, departmental heads and civil servants who carry out his instructions in defiance of a court order?

Is "I was only obeying orders" a defence?

They are banking on Trump staying in office for life and they really really honestly truly still believe that he will protect, promote, and pardon them for being faithful to his service.

 

[Khamon]

Iirc, the process for removing cabinet members is basically the same as removing the president.. impeachment by the house, then trial by the senate. Given that congress rolled over and approved these egregiously problematic appointees, is very unlikely they'll admit they made a mistake.

I only mention the cabinet because using the 25th to declare a president unfit requires the VP and a majority of the cabinet to agree... and each of them are likely counting on a blanket pardon, and just smart enough not to jeopardize their chance at getting one.

This still depends on their belief that mid-term elections will be held and that their constituents may not vote for them. Being dupped is one thing. Intentionally supporting the Reich is another.

 

[Noodles]

This still depends on their belief that mid-term elections will be held and that their constituents may not vote for them. Being dupped is one thing. Intentionally supporting the Reich is another.

Nah, Midterms will be back ended by Starlink and it won't matter if every MAGA actually realized the error of their ways and votes against the GOP, the election will be a landslide MAGA wave.