The Trial

Innula Zenovka

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The only way to not get a conviction is to not try. There are a million different ways they could have gotten it,
Please, then, briefly describe three of these million different ways in which you say they could have obtained a conviction had they tried..

ETA: What Veritable said, only I'm asking in British, not American, English about it.
 

Jopsy Pendragon

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There are a million different ways they could have gotten it, but they didn't do it,
And how exactly would they BUY those conviction votes? Blackmail? Concede control of the Senate to the republicans?

I can't think of anything dems could offer that would sway enough votes... and the republicans would rather go down in history as partisan hacks than be run out of town by their own party and their constituents. Holding on to power is their #1 objective. They're not influenced by any other leverage.

I'm sorry the dems have disappointed you so much, but if you don't vote against the Nationalistic Authoritarian Zealot Incumbants (gee, is that an acronym? Hmmm), then you'll be complict in letting them regain and retain power.
 

Pamela

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On Twitter there is discussion among anti and Never Trumpers about whether to make a new conservative party, but they are being encouraged to remain a part of the Democratic coalition fighting our biggest threat atm — Trump and minions. Hopefully it is now crystal clear that with all the cheating and suppression the Trumpists are working on, we need all hands on deck.
 
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Shiloh Lyric

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More democrats would just mean more people trying to act like they give a shit when they don't.

We all saw the evidence. The only way to not get a conviction is to not try. There are a million different ways they could have gotten it, but they didn't do it, because at best, they do nothing. At worst, they did not want a conviction.

I'm tired of trying to split hairs with DNC leadership. They either failed or they didn't. That's all that matters. If they don't deliver, they don't get my vote.

Go ahead, try to explain this in such a way that Pelosi and Schumer are faultless. Try to explain how their case was perfect in every way, and that ole meanie McConnell ruined it all. That's my favorite bedtime story. In the end, though, that's all it is. It's a fairy tale we tell ourselves to help us believe that we support good people, when we don't.
Have you EVER even canvassed for a candidate? Knocked on the doors of your neighbors? I mean, you complain a lot, but I have yet to see you post about investing any actual time and effort into change, other than posting online about it.

I mean...hey, you vote. Yay. But what else? What actual steps have YOU taken to bring about any sort of substantive change? I saw you complain back during the primaries about no Democrats out in your neighborhoods. So why weren't YOU. Democrats rarely knock on MY door where I'm at, either, because there are, like, 2 of us in this neighborhood who would make it worth their while. So...I got involved myself. Beats sitting on my ass complaining.
 

bubblesort

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And how exactly would they BUY those conviction votes? Blackmail? Concede control of the Senate to the republicans?

I can't think of anything dems could offer that would sway enough votes... and the republicans would rather go down in history as partisan hacks than be run out of town by their own party and their constituents. Holding on to power is their #1 objective. They're not influenced by any other leverage.

I'm sorry the dems have disappointed you so much, but if you don't vote against the Nationalistic Authoritarian Zealot Incumbants (gee, is that an acronym? Hmmm), then you'll be complict in letting them regain and retain power.
You saw what we all saw. It's an open and shut case against Trump, with publicly available information. They didn't seem to have done any discovery beyond that, though, because they didn't want to win this case. What was Trump's role in the withholding of national guard? How about the planning? Nothing new came out about that. The case they made could have been made by any of us with a few hours research on YouTube. They didn't even call witnesses. Why?

Why don't I see anybody in the media calling out Republicans for being soft on terrorism? The democratic party can manage to get the media to circle the wagons against Bernie, and Booker, because somehow they thought McGrath would defeat McConnell, but they can't do it to force a clear message that Trump is a terrorist?

If those terrorists were brown, Biden would be declaring them enemy combatants, and sending the rangers after them. Can't do that to white people, apparently.

The 14th amendment has clear provisions for removing senators who take part in terrorism against the united states. I see no movement in that direction. If they did, they could at least take a clear majority in the senate.

I'm not buying their lame excuses, and you shouldn't, either. They are losing because they want to lose.

The party establishment needs McConnell, and Greene, and Cruz, and the rest of the boogeymen, to fund raise off of. It's all about bribes and patronage and keeping their positions so they can enrich themselves by insider trading on the stock market. They don't give a shit about you and me. Trump and his people are going to continue doing this, because the democratic party refuses to take domestic terrorism seriously.
 

bubblesort

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Have you EVER even canvassed for a candidate? Knocked on the doors of your neighbors? I mean, you complain a lot, but I have yet to see you post about investing any actual time and effort into change, other than posting online about it.

I mean...hey, you vote. Yay. But what else? What actual steps have YOU taken to bring about any sort of substantive change? I saw you complain back during the primaries about no Democrats out in your neighborhoods. So why weren't YOU. Democrats rarely knock on MY door where I'm at, either, because there are, like, 2 of us in this neighborhood who would make it worth their while. So...I got involved myself. Beats sitting on my ass complaining.
Oh, come on... we've been over that before. You know I have done that.

I'm glad you are civically engaged.
 

Argent Stonecutter

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If you don't actually know the answers to those questions you haven't even done a few *minutes* online research.
 
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Innula Zenovka

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You saw what we all saw. It's an open and shut case against Trump, with publicly available information. They didn't seem to have done any discovery beyond that, though, because they didn't want to win this case. What was Trump's role in the withholding of national guard? How about the planning? Nothing new came out about that. The case they made could have been made by any of us with a few hours research on YouTube. They didn't even call witnesses. Why?
Discovery happens when you're calling witnesses and producing evidence. It's part of the normal civil and criminal process, and I quite see why they'd want to leave that to Merrick Garland, the Justice Department and the FBI, who will doubtless have all sorts of interesting material to put into discovery as the federal criminal cases develop.
 

Aribeth Zelin

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Discovery happens when you're calling witnesses and producing evidence. It's part of the normal civil and criminal process, and I quite see why they'd want to leave that to Merrick Garland, the Justice Department and the FBI, who will doubtless have all sorts of interesting material to put into discovery as the federal criminal cases develop.
Okay, the House managers were going to call one or two witnesses. From what I've seen since indicates that the one they were definitely going to call, suddenly backed out, and I've heard there were threats involved. Because Herrera Buetler is a Republican [one of the 10 that voted to impeach].

So, basically, someone got to the potential witnesses, made threats, and suddenly, no witnesses. I'd like to know who; was it internal enemies or external.
 

Innula Zenovka

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Okay, the House managers were going to call one or two witnesses. From what I've seen since indicates that the one they were definitely going to call, suddenly backed out, and I've heard there were threats involved. Because Herrera Buetler is a Republican [one of the 10 that voted to impeach].

So, basically, someone got to the potential witnesses, made threats, and suddenly, no witnesses. I'd like to know who; was it internal enemies or external.
As I understand it, Herrera Beutler's evidence became an issue because it emerged only during the course of the impeachment hearing. The House managers wanted to put into evidence what she had to say, and scared the hell out of the Republicans by getting an unexpected majority to call her as a live witness, which would have meant submitting her evidence for discovery.

The Republicans really didn't want that to happen, because if they called her as a live witness to the phone call, then it would be difficult to avoid calling other witnesses to both ends of the phone call, too, to see what they had to say about it, and that really would be embarrassing.

The house managers must, I think, have taken the view that they've made their point, and had her statement introduced as evidence, and they can safely leave further investigation of the phone call, and a host of other matters concerning the events of Janurary 6th in the hands of others, whether those others are a formal commission of inquiry, with the ability to compel witnesses, or a criminal investigation by the FBI, or both.
 

danielravennest

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We all saw the evidence. The only way to not get a conviction is to not try. There are a million different ways they could have gotten it, but they didn't do it, because at best, they do nothing. At worst, they did not want a conviction.
I don't think you're seeing the larger picture. Conviction puts a footnote in the history books, and would have led to a vote on preventing him from running for federal office. But that's not the goal. The goal was to cement the record of what happened on Jan 6th, and get the testimony from the House republican that McCarthy talked to. McCarthy tried to get Trump to call off the rioters, and he wouldn't. This evidence can now be used in his *criminal* trial.

A criminal trial puts him in jail. That also stops him from running for office and puts a footnote in the history books, but also detaches the saner part of the Republicans from following him. He can't do rallies from jail, or use social media, etc.