The Catholic Church Should Burn

[Free]

This shocking news was already in the popes confession in the movie The Two Popes on Netflix.
One of the reasons pope Benedict stepped down, according to that movie.

A pretty good film, as well.

 

[WolfEyes]

This as good a thread as the other one.

 

[GoblinCampFollower]

This as good a thread as the other one.

It is funny to watch some people argue that middle easterners are white, but ONLY when it suits them... ancient scholars and Jesus were white, modern middle easterners are not!

 

[WolfEyes]

It is funny to watch some people argue that middle easterners are white, but ONLY when it suits them... ancient scholars and Jesus were white, modern middle easterners are not!

I noticed the old guy with the long white beard seems to be thinking hard and catching on. Any moment it's going to dawn on him... Katy! Bar the door!

 

[WolfEyes]

Just changed one word and all hell breaks loose? The church doesn't give a damn what the repercussions to their congregations are.

All baptisms performed by Phoenix priest invalid because he changed one word (msn.com)

 

[WolfEyes]

Just changed one word and all hell breaks loose? The church doesn't give a damn what the repercussions to their congregations are.

All baptisms performed by Phoenix priest invalid because he changed one word (msn.com)

Saying "I" is the same as claiming to be Christ and that isn't offensive? WTAF? "We" makes a lot more sense when it is representative of Christ and the individual standing in for Christ.

Of all the idiotic, antihuman stupidities...

Those who believe they or their children were baptized by Arango can fill out a form online to be properly baptized. Subsequent sacraments, including marriage, may need to be repeated by those who had invalid baptisms performed by Arango, according to the Diocese of Phoenix.

Oh yay, let's make them spend even more money they can't afford just to stay right with sky[net]-buddy.

 

[Argent Stonecutter]

"The Vatican’s Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith in 2020 clarified that using "we" during the first sacrament was not valid."

So how many other priests were using the wrong magic words before 2020?

 

[Sid]

Just changed one word and all hell breaks loose? The church doesn't give a damn what the repercussions to their congregations are.

All baptisms performed by Phoenix priest invalid because he changed one word (msn.com)

If a wizard uses the wrong wording in a spell, anything could happen, right?

 

[WolfEyes]

If a wizard uses the wrong wording in a spell, anything could happen, right?

I don't think Harry Potter is Catholic.

 

[Aribeth Zelin]

I don't think Harry Potter is Catholic.

Different tradition, obviously

 

[Free]

I don't think Harry Potter is Catholic.

I don't know the books or movies all that well, but I think Harry Potter is Gryffindor.

 

[Argent Stonecutter]

He should have been in Slytherin.

 

[Lexxi]

Saying "I" is the same as claiming to be Christ and that isn't offensive? WTAF? "We" makes a lot more sense when it is representative of Christ and the individual standing in for Christ.

Of all the idiotic, antihuman stupidities...



Oh yay, let's make them spend even more money they can't afford just to stay right with sky[net]-buddy.

Arango, who has been practicing as a priest for more than two decades, used the phrase “We baptize you in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit," instead of "I baptize you in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit."

"The issue with using 'We' is that it is not the community that baptizes a person, rather, it is Christ, and Him alone, who presides at all of the sacraments, and so it is Christ Jesus who baptizes," Olmsted said.

So, apparently, the priest is CHRIST when performing baptisms. hmm. Okay, dokie. But what about those others? Wait, WTF? It's "Priest = Christ", but . . . Christ isn't part of it. It's 1) Father; 2) Son; 3) Holy Spirit. Where the fuck is Christ in that? Stepping past that, we have three listed entities and a priest. So We. They all the same? Then just say God already. "I, as a stand in for God, baptize you. *splashes holy water onto baby head, does sign of pointing upward with one finger to represent God above, no not that finger*".

"Well, you see, Christ is actually..." pfft.

 

[Aribeth Zelin]

Christ is a title for Jeshua, the Son..... just saying.

 

[Grandma Bates]

Just changed one word and all hell breaks loose? The church doesn't give a damn what the repercussions to their congregations are.

All baptisms performed by Phoenix priest invalid because he changed one word (msn.com)

That is bizarre. According to Catholic doctrine, the sacraments celebrated by defrocked priests are not invalid due to the principle of Ex opere operato. The idea is that sacraments are an act of God's grace and not due to the priest's faith:

Ex opere operato - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

The Dioceses of Phoenix has removed a number of priests,
https://dphx.org/youth-protection/community-notification-statements/

Some of them committed horrific violations of the trust their community placed in them, yet none of the sacraments they celebrated have been called into question. This priest used one wrong word, "we" instead of "I," and they are calling into question every baptism he celebrated sowing confusion and angst amongst their faithful. How anyone in that diocese can have any faith in the institution is amazing.

 

[Lexxi]

"The Vatican’s Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith in 2020 clarified that using "we" during the first sacrament was not valid."

So how many other priests were using the wrong magic words before 2020?

Oh. Heh. Here's a twist:

This caused absolute chaos in Detroit, where the Rev. Matthew Hood saw in a video of his 1990 baptism that Deacon Mark Springer used the "We" formula. As a result, Hood was not a Christian, let alone a priest, because he could not be validly ordained a priest if he was not validly baptized.

Hood's situation was quickly remedied on Aug. 9 with his baptism and on Aug. 17 with his ordination. But the archdiocese is trying to track down everyone baptized by Deacon Springer, who served in Detroit from 1986 to 1999. How many other priests and deacons around the country used "We" is unknown.

Since Rev. Matthew Hood's baptism was done incorrectly (using "We"), So many things he did as a priest . . . are now invalid. Except . . . see below for the extra special twist (no, below that, further down).

But since his ordination in 2017 was invalid, people who went to Hood's "Masses" did not really attend Mass and did not receive consecrated bread at Communion. It also means that his absolutions in confession were not sacramental. His confirmations and anointing of the sick were also invalid. When he performed these sacraments, he was not even a Christian, let alone a priest.

Every Mass he performed, every absolution he performed when hearing confessions; every time he visited a sick and/or dying person, he did so as a normal non-priest, despite putting himself forward as such. How many people are in hell now because of Rev. Hood, eh? All those dying confessions, invalid. Person goes to hell. Because Hood's baptism was with wrong formula. (I mean, if you believe one thing, then . . . )

Oh, and here's the twist on the twist:

Thankfully, his [Rev. Hood's] baptisms were valid because a non-Christian can perform a valid baptism.

As far as marriages performed by the non-Christian Hood (since his baptism was invalid when he was baptised)?

An argument can be made that Hood's marriages could be valid because the couple are the ministers of the sacrament, not the priest. The priest is simply a witness for the church and the church has allowed the nonordained (for example, sea captains) to perform this task in emergencies.

https://www.ncronline.org/news/theology/signs-times/vatican-causes-chaos-invalidating-baptism-formula

 

[Lexxi]

Bible Gateway passage: Matthew 3:13-17, Mark 1:9-11, Luke 3:21-23 - New International Version

The Baptism of Jesus - Then Jesus came from Galilee to the Jordan to be baptized by John. But John tried to deter him, saying, “I need to be baptized by you, and do you come to me?” Jesus replied, “Let it be so now; it is proper for us to do this to fulfill all righteousness.” Then John...

www.biblegateway.com

Vaguely annoys me that the words used while Jesus was being baptized is not mentioned (though the words used before and after he was baptized are).

When all the people were being baptized, Jesus was baptized too. And as he was praying, heaven was opened 22 and the Holy Spirit descended on him in bodily form like a dove. And a voice came from heaven: “You are my Son, whom I love; with you I am well pleased.”

At that time Jesus came from Nazareth in Galilee and was baptized by John in the Jordan. 10 Just as Jesus was coming up out of the water, he saw heaven being torn open and the Spirit descending on him like a dove. 11 And a voice came from heaven: “You are my Son, whom I love; with you I am well pleased.”

Then Jesus came from Galilee to the Jordan to be baptized by John. 14 But John tried to deter him, saying, “I need to be baptized by you, and do you come to me?”

15 Jesus replied, “Let it be so now; it is proper for us to do this to fulfill all righteousness.” Then John consented.

16 As soon as Jesus was baptized, he went up out of the water. At that moment heaven was opened,and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove and alighting on him. 17 And a voice from heavensaid, “This is my Son, whom I love; with him I am well pleased.”

If the words were super duper important, you'd think Luke, Matthew or Mark would have taken the opportunity presented and told us the words when Jesus was baptized. Granted, it'd be confusing if they used the same words as used now. "In the name of the Father, the You, and the Holy Spirit..."

 

[danielravennest]

This is a holey spirit:

 

[WolfEyes]

Bible Gateway passage: Matthew 3:13-17, Mark 1:9-11, Luke 3:21-23 - New International Version

The Baptism of Jesus - Then Jesus came from Galilee to the Jordan to be baptized by John. But John tried to deter him, saying, “I need to be baptized by you, and do you come to me?” Jesus replied, “Let it be so now; it is proper for us to do this to fulfill all righteousness.” Then John...

www.biblegateway.com

Vaguely annoys me that the words used while Jesus was being baptized is not mentioned (though the words used before and after he was baptized are).







If the words were super duper important, you'd think Luke, Matthew or Mark would have taken the opportunity presented and told us the words when Jesus was baptized. Granted, it'd be confusing if they used the same words as used now. "In the name of the Father, the You, and the Holy Spirit..."

It was probably something really simple like, "I baptize thee in the name of the Holy Spirit." I doubt the other two would (Father and Son) even be mentioned since they didn't exist yet.

 

[Argent Stonecutter]

Just don't baptize in the name of Loki, that acid venom burns.