The Catholic Church Should Burn

[Argent Stonecutter]

By the way there is a christian church with a powerful old female white woman in charge: The church of England: Queen Elizabeth II.

I went to a CofE school. We had a scripture class. One term we studied The Clockwork Orange as our text.

 

[Lexxi]

"arguing that their decision to forgo parenthood leads to a loss of "humanity" and is a detriment to civilization." - Well, officially at least (wink wink), the Catholic Church has been run by people who forgo parenthood and are inhumane. And a detriment to civilization. hmm.

 

[GoblinCampFollower]

"arguing that their decision to forgo parenthood leads to a loss of "humanity" and is a detriment to civilization." - Well, officially at least (wink wink), the Catholic Church has been run by people who forgo parenthood and are inhumane. And a detriment to civilization. hmm.

On a kind of related note, It's incredible how the Catholic church STILL requires celibacy. This isn't biblically required, it was done to deter people who weren't sincere enough believers from becoming priests just for social mobility. ...but this hasn't been relevant for a very long time. ...but what do you expect from an organization who thinks tradition is an end in itself?

 

[danielravennest]

Wassup Popey ? Not enough new catholics being born to keep the vatican funded ?

Exactly. The number of children per married US Catholic woman has been steadily declining. I don't know what the numbers are for *unmarried* ones.

 

[Beebo Brink]

On a kind of related note, It's incredible how the Catholic church STILL requires celibacy. This isn't biblically required, it was done to deter people who weren't sincere enough believers from becoming priests just for social mobility. ...but this hasn't been relevant for a very long time. ...but what do you expect from an organization who thinks tradition is an end in itself?

No, it was done to keep property in the church instead of going to heirs. Sincere belief wasn't a concern since the church hierarchy was filled with second or third sons of nobility. It was a career choice, not a spiritual vocation, and celibacy often wasn't adhered to, even by popes.

 

[GoblinCampFollower]

No, it was done to keep property in the church instead of going to heirs. Sincere belief wasn't a concern since the church hierarchy was filled with second or third sons of nobility. It was a career choice, not a spiritual vocation, and celibacy often wasn't adhered to, even by popes.

I'll admit right away your story is way more plausible... my story may have been a spin believers put on it... So I accept your correction.

...and celibacy often wasn't adhered to, even by popes.

Well of course to this part! Praying doesn't magically kill that drive, lol.

 

[Jopsy Pendragon]

No, it was done to keep property in the church instead of going to heirs. Sincere belief wasn't a concern since the church hierarchy was filled with second or third sons of nobility. It was a career choice, not a spiritual vocation, and celibacy often wasn't adhered to, even by popes.

I'm sure it appealed to noble families the same way. Fewer dowries to pay or bifurcating family lines to take care of.

 

[Tirellia]

So, after yet more thinking about it, the problem I have with religion is it always seems to be about old [white] dudes telling others to do the very things they aren't.

What about all the Hindu, Buddhist, Sikh and Muslim priests, amongst various other cults? I don't think many of them are white.

 

[Sid]

Even most christian leaders are not white on local/regional level. Not many churches have an extreme world wide hierarchical structure as the catholic church has. And even there you see more and more bishops of color. Rightfully so of course. The time that the white men came to the other continents to 'convert the heathen' are long gone.
It is even more the other way around at the moment. There are more and more priests coming to my part of the world, mostly from Latin America, because of a rapidly growing shortage of them in our catholic parishes.

 

[Tirellia]

The Church of England has an increasing number of black African vicars. There's just not enough money in the clergy anymore for the spare sons of the aristocracy.

 

[Innula Zenovka]

White US Evangelical schools (and parents)


And, for a broader (and horrifying) context

Ministry of Violence, Parts I—III

Corporal punishment, Evangelicals, and the Doctrine of Obedience

theswordandthesandwich.substack.com

 

[Aribeth Zelin]

What about all the Hindu, Buddhist, Sikh and Muslim priests, amongst various other cults? I don't think many of them are white.

Okay, first, context. I'm in the US, we're talking about a church where the person at the top is still an old white man. And by religion, I more meant varieties of Christianity; none of which actually follow the teachings of Christ, properly, or even the traditions of the early Christians. I don't know much of the workings of other faiths, to comment.

But fine, nitpick.

 

[Innula Zenovka]

Okay, first, context. I'm in the US, we're talking about a church where the person at the top is still an old white man. And by religion, I more meant varieties of Christianity; none of which actually follow the teachings of Christ, properly, or even the traditions of the early Christians. I don't know much of the workings of other faiths, to comment.

But fine, nitpick.

The problem is, to my mind, that when you have adults in positions of authority and trust with unsupervised access to children, you're going to get sexual abuse. It's not a question of religion or colour. It's power and exploitation.

 

[WolfEyes]

Religion is used to exploit people and gain power of a different kind, but power nonetheless.


"But if we might discuss this point until we found that we nearly agreed, and if we do agree thoroughly about the impropriety of Carlylese denunciations and Pharisaism in history, I cannot accept your canon that we are to judge Pope and King unlike other men, with a favourable presumption that they did no wrong. If there is any presumption it is the other way, against the holders of power, increasing as the power increases. Historic responsibility has to make up for the want of legal responsibility. Power tends to corrupt, and absolute power corrupts absolutely. Great men are almost always bad men, even when they exercise influence and not authority, still more when you superadd the tendency or the certainty of corruption by authority. There is no worse heresy than that the office sanctifies the holder of it. That is the point at which the negation of Catholicism and the negation of Liberalism meet and keep high festival, and the end learns to justify the means. You would hang a man of no position like Ravaillac; but if what one hears is true, then Elizabeth asked the gaoler to murder Mary, and William III of England ordered his Scots minister to extirpate a clan. Here are the greatest names coupled with the greatest crimes; you would spare those criminals, for some mysterious reason. I would hang them higher than Haman, for reasons of quite obvious justice, still more, still higher for the sake of historical science." ~ John Dalberg-Acton, 1st Baron Acton

 

[Aribeth Zelin]

The problem is, to my mind, that when you have adults in positions of authority and trust with unsupervised access to children, you're going to get sexual abuse. It's not a question of religion or colour. It's power and exploitation.

Well, yes - but when it comes to it, Christianity is the perfect vehicle to do all sorts of things; women aren't good enough to be leaders, or better yet 'they are too holy and pure'. I honestly think that, considering that even learning things like priests using convents as their personal harems, or some have molested female children, its only ever been about abusing males. No one cares about the rest, or it would get brought up more, both in the church and well, as a whole.

I know its changing, but dear gods, I'd hoped we'd be further along by now, you know?

 

[Soen Eber]

The Catholic church has a managerial system which was up-to-date for the 13th century. I have heard on NPR an International Herald Tribune religion reporter complaining that when he visits the vatican on a regular basis, people are constantly coming up to him asking for the latest news on the Catholic church, as it doesn't get filtered down within their own hierarchy. These are the moderate to high level adminstrators within the vatican who are doing the asking.

 

[Innula Zenovka]

Former pope Benedict accused of inaction over child sexual abuse cases

Two cases involved abusers who were allowed to continue with pastoral duties, says lawyer

www.theguardian.com

Evernote link

 

[Free]

Former pope Benedict accused of inaction over child sexual abuse cases

Two cases involved abusers who were allowed to continue with pastoral duties, says lawyer

www.theguardian.com

 

[Innula Zenovka]

Pope Benedict admits making false claim to church abuse inquiry

Pope Benedict has admitted giving incorrect evidence to an inquiry into predator priests in the German church and the officials who covered up for them.The pope

www.thetimes.co.uk

Evernote link

To be fair, this looks like more of an oversight than a cover-up:

“The statement to the contrary was therefore objectively incorrect,” he added, insisting this was “not done out of bad faith, but was the result of an oversight in the editing of his statement”.

Benedict claimed that reassigning Hullermann was not discussed at the meeting. “Objectively correct, however, remains the statement, documented by the files, that in his meeting no decision was made about a pastoral assignment of the priest in question,” he said. “Rather, only the request to provide him with accommodation during his therapeutic treatment in Munich was granted.”

 

[Sid]

This shocking news was already in the popes confession in the movie The Two Popes on Netflix.
One of the reasons pope Benedict stepped down, according to that movie.