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Spirits Rising

Voice of Reason/Quite Blunt
Joined
Sep 21, 2018
Messages
115
Location
Akron, OH
SL Rez
2006
Joined SLU
08/24/2014
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So help me out here. Where exactly is Linden Lab "paying itself"? You won't answer whether or not you think LL is lying about their role in the Lindex.

Officially, if you sell a Linden on the Lindex, it's being bought by another resident. LL doesn't pay anything to anybody; in fact, they get a fee for every transaction. Officially, LL shouldn't care one bit if you stockpile Lindens and use them to pay Premium.

What is this "truth" of which you speak?
For a Limit Sale, perhaps. How many users do you really think are using that avenue?

And I did answer your query regarding what I think.

But if you need a "direct" answer: If they aren't at the minimum stretching the truth a bit then they're far more honest than the average business.

Either way, it really doesn't matter. Point blank, they lose money on higher Stipends with their current system.

ETA: If I am wrong, kindly mail me a hat to eat. The bar for that evidence however ... is fairly high.
 
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Cristalle

Lady of the House
Joined
Sep 24, 2018
Messages
370
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Flori-duh
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2006
Joined SLU
July 8, 2008
SLU Posts
2903
Here is where I lose the track of what you're saying. Because LL does not (supposedly) buy back those Lindens from residents. The Lindex was created so that residents with stockpiles of Lindens would sell them to residents who wanted more Lindens to spend. The only (supposed) involvement that LL has with that process is to get a small transaction fee. And if that's the actually the case, it's irrelevant to LL that residents stockpile their Lindens, it's simply not a concern for them.

The only way that cashing out a stipend would cost LL real money is if they're fucking with the Lindex and propping up the exchange rate. They aren't supposed to be doing that. I don't know whether it's illegal in any way, but it certainly would be a sign of a softening SL market and it's counter to what they CLAIM the Lindex is for.
At best, there is a lost opportunity cost for people on the transaction fees and for people who buy lindens. If I didn't have this stipend coming in, I would need to buy L to get the things I want. But either way, LL doesn't shell out anything to anyone, it's all opportunity costs that are lost.
 
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Beebo Brink

Climate Apocalypse Alarmist
Joined
Sep 20, 2018
Messages
863
But if you need a "direct" answer: If they aren't at the minimum stretching the truth a bit then they're far more honest than the average business.

Either way, it really doesn't matter. Point blank, they lose money on higher Stipends with their current system.
So that's Spirits Rising raising his hand in the "LL is running a rigged virtual economy" camp. Any evidence for it is going right over my head, but that's no surprise since my understanding of economies is rudimentary at best. This would certainly explain why they aren't raising stipends and they aren't weeping over the loss of the residents who stockpile Lindens to pay real life fees.

I have no compunction about doing this, btw, because I'm playing entirely by the rules LL has set. If it bites them, the last people to blame should be residents.

Meanwhile, given how little I log in to SL, it's time for me to continue winding down. When 2020 rolls around, I'll downgrade to Basic for most of my accounts. If you're accurate in your assessment, LL will rejoice. :p
 
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Spirits Rising

Voice of Reason/Quite Blunt
Joined
Sep 21, 2018
Messages
115
Location
Akron, OH
SL Rez
2006
Joined SLU
08/24/2014
SLU Posts
1476
So that's Spirits Rising raising his hand in the "LL is running a rigged virtual economy" camp.
No, that's me stating that they're likely not being entirely truthful.
 
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Victorianna Writer

If all else fails...reboot!
VVO Supporter 🍦🎈👾❤
Joined
Mar 30, 2019
Messages
333
Location
Texas
SL Rez
2007
Joined SLU
2008
Pandora, just because the alternatives you suggest fit YOUR needs doesn't mean it fits everyone's needs. Not everyone uses or wants to use Discord, snapchat, Flickr, Facebook, etc. for SL purposes. I've already had a dozen or more stores & other places trying to make me use their Facebook & I had enough of that crap when I started getting links on my personal RL Facebook with crap & people in SL. I don't want my RL mixed with my SL & sure as hell don't want the friend suggestions that came with them to my personal FB account. I also have zero interest in using a voice program of any kind to listen to everyone from kids to old men in SL. That's fine if it works for you but it doesn't work for everyone & certainly not for me.
I made a separate FB page for my SL Avi. and made sure that my sl avi is not friends with my RL fb. To me, RL is RL and SL is SL as much as possible unless my friends were already RL friends or we become RL friends. But, other than that, like you, I wouldn't want others to look at my RL fb and use it for SL. So, I keep mine separate.
 

OrinB

I'm here...
Joined
Sep 20, 2018
Messages
179
Location
UK
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2007
Joined SLU
23 Sept 2009
SLU Posts
4771
Facebook is the worst platform for providing time sensitive info ie: sale on now! Come to this event for the next 2 hours!

Geez even all the rl events posted on Facebook get to me 2-3 days after the fact! Facebook tries to send you info it thinks you want to see at times it feels might be relevant to you missing out on that said event! It’s fucking useless for sl and relies on you breaking facebooks rules about using a known identity for establishing a presence there.
 
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Aeon Jiminy

Member
Joined
Oct 9, 2018
Messages
47
So LL decided to walk back their plans to cut groups on Basic accounts. They still plan to clip offline messages by 10. I guess the basic members who still pay LL thousands of real dollars per year need to sacrifice something, even the ones who may spend 10 or 20 times what a premium member will spend.

Times are tough and sacrifices need to be made. We all need to join together and do our part to keep this wonderful place going. That's why I'm really looking forward to the sad announcement That LL will be shutting down Sansar operations and laying off the hard-working men and women on that staff. Money is money and resources are resources. There simply isn't enough, anymore, to support the things that don't give back. Nope, can't take a hard look at the books and ignore that albatross.
 

Adeon Writer

Active member
Joined
Sep 20, 2018
Messages
153
It's a hard choice but I've decided unless something seriously changes in Feb 2020 I'll be cancelling premium for the first time since 2008. I just can't justify the increased fees.

Won't be going in another year even if I can lock in my current rate. I'm gonna unsub and lose my land eventually, might as well let it go sooner.
 

RealVioletWitch

Randomly Awkward
Joined
Sep 20, 2018
Messages
44
Location
Canada
SL Rez
2006
We have three premium accounts just for the grouped land / tier / whatever its called, but this price increase is gonna make it too expensive. Will keep one account premium but the other two will drop to basic. We don't use a lot of groups or offline IMs so neither of those things make a difference either way, as a carrot or stick.

If they were gonna increase the included land allowance or raise the stipends, that might have made a difference. Cutting the price of full regions is meaningless. You don't even hafta be premium to own an island, right? At least, you didn't way back when. So like others have said already, it's hiking the price for the little guys, to give a price cut to the big guys. :mad:
 
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Kara Spengler

Queer OccupyE9 Sluni-Goon
Joined
Sep 20, 2018
Messages
2,190
Location
SL: November RL: DC
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2007
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December, 2008
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wow people *really* like their groups. I hardly use them, and if we need a group chat going there is always discord wich is waayyyyy more reliable.
Yeah, I have been in SL since the group limit was WAY lower (15 I think). At that point there were plenty of good cases to raise it. Even then there were a few grumbles to raise it more. After that I just stopped caring because I was so used to the low limit it had originally been.
 
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CronoCloud Creeggan

Redheaded
VVO Supporter 🍦🎈👾❤
Joined
Sep 26, 2018
Messages
175
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Central Illinois
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2006
Joined SLU
07-25-2012
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278
I said this in an SL group chat a couple of days ago:

[2019/05/29 22:09] Ms. CC Creeggan (cronocloud.creeggan): Though I will make this prediction now...they'll walk back some of the changes and make them more gradual. (though being able to lock in the current rate for one more year is part of that)

Since they walked back the reduction in group slots for Basic accounts, I would hold off of any changes in one's account status. Because I suspect they'll do something similar in regards to the premium price changes.

My guess? That they'll do one or more of the following:

1. They'll increase the window for locking in the current rate to 2 or 3 months instead of 1.
2. They'll spread the increase over 2 or 3 years instead of one, which is what they should have done in the first place but spread over 10 years.
3. They'll up the Premium tier allocation to 2048 to give it more value, though I suspect that or a larger 4096 benefit will be in their "Super Premium" level they've been mentioning on the forums.

As for the "Super Premium"? My guess is that they're either bringing lifetime accounts back (less likely) or will offer an "upgrade" to premium where if you pay a one-time fee of oh say US$250 - US$300 (similar to the buy down fee for regions they did some time back), you can permanently up your premium tier allocation to 4096.

as for groups? I am surprised at those who say they don't need more and don't really use them. Practically since I started SL I've been saying:

[2010/08/11 18:16] CronoCloud Creeggan: I'd do Zindra type things with Torley Linden while dressed as a Gorean Panther Girl if it would get me more group slots.
[2010/08/11 18:16] CronoCloud Creeggan: I'd even wear Pink and green for a month...if it would get me more group slots.

My Kingdom for more group slots. 100 would be nice, 250 would be better, 500....now you're talking. Is that so much to ask? I also want a billion L$, all of the fashion that's ever been made now and forever, absolute rulership of the Grid as it's Majestrix...and a pony, preferably a unicorn pony. Not an Alicorn, that's too Mary Sue for me.
 

Romana

Well-known member
Joined
Sep 21, 2018
Messages
401
I said this in an SL group chat a couple of days ago:

[2019/05/29 22:09] Ms. CC Creeggan (cronocloud.creeggan): Though I will make this prediction now...they'll walk back some of the changes and make them more gradual. (though being able to lock in the current rate for one more year is part of that)

Since they walked back the reduction in group slots for Basic accounts, I would hold off of any changes in one's account status. Because I suspect they'll do something similar in regards to the premium price changes.

My guess? That they'll do one or more of the following:

1. They'll increase the window for locking in the current rate to 2 or 3 months instead of 1.
2. They'll spread the increase over 2 or 3 years instead of one, which is what they should have done in the first place but spread over 10 years.
3. They'll up the Premium tier allocation to 2048 to give it more value, though I suspect that or a larger 4096 benefit will be in their "Super Premium" level they've been mentioning on the forums.

As for the "Super Premium"? My guess is that they're either bringing lifetime accounts back (less likely) or will offer an "upgrade" to premium where if you pay a one-time fee of oh say US$250 - US$300 (similar to the buy down fee for regions they did some time back), you can permanently up your premium tier allocation to 4096.

as for groups? I am surprised at those who say they don't need more and don't really use them. Practically since I started SL I've been saying:

[2010/08/11 18:16] CronoCloud Creeggan: I'd do Zindra type things with Torley Linden while dressed as a Gorean Panther Girl if it would get me more group slots.
[2010/08/11 18:16] CronoCloud Creeggan: I'd even wear Pink and green for a month...if it would get me more group slots.

My Kingdom for more group slots. 100 would be nice, 250 would be better, 500....now you're talking. Is that so much to ask? I also want a billion L$, all of the fashion that's ever been made now and forever, absolute rulership of the Grid as it's Majestrix...and a pony, preferably a unicorn pony. Not an Alicorn, that's too Mary Sue for me.
Well, I have no plans to buy a region, homestead, or anything else that will up my tier even at the current rates; I just downsized not that long ago. More premium land? I have up my Linen home to have a slightly bigger parcel without going back up in tier, so it could be useful to get another plot somewhere to log in it my home sim was down, possibly even another Linden home. I do like the land I'm on now, nice view, neighbors OK, and I even like the sim name.
If they don't walk back the rate hike or offer something else to sweeten the deal, I expect I'll take the extra year renewal at the current rate, and then, I don't know.
 

Ellen Cordeaux

Lurky Loo
Joined
Sep 20, 2018
Messages
119
Location
San Junipero
SL Rez
2006
Joined SLU
2013
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2357
I made a separate FB page for my SL Avi.
I did too and I have to say; the meltdowns and massive amount of whining, screaming, threatening to 'leave SL forever' and other outraged over-reactions people are having on SL FB have been quite entertaining. *edited to add: Most of this about the changes in groups, which LL walked back the next day. #virtualfirstworldproblems.

As for the rate hike, I don't understand why so many people are freaking out. LL is a for profit business. They were bound to raise prices at some point; especially since it's mostly us premium oldbies who are actually keeping the lights on. 🤷‍♀️

I went ahead and locked in the premium for another year on my main. I'll probably drop my alt to basic before the deadline since I'm not even using her land contribution right now. I'm really curious what 'new level' of premium they are teasing means too.
 
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Kamilah Hauptmann

This Reality Blows
Joined
Sep 20, 2018
Messages
2,239
Location
Cat Country (Can't Stop Here)
[2019/05/29 22:09] Ms. CC Creeggan (cronocloud.creeggan): Though I will make this prediction now...they'll walk back some of the changes and make them more gradual. (though being able to lock in the current rate for one more year is part of that)
It's almost like you've seen this dance before.
 

Ryanna Enfield

Active member
Joined
Sep 20, 2018
Messages
67
I started thinking on this a lot over the past few days, and have decided to wait and see at this point. I wish the premium increase has been announced with the addition of the extra land and prims that happened a couple months ago. I think that would have made the increase more palatable. I'm waiting for the other shoe to drop, which will likely be removal of grandfathered stipends. At this point, I feel like an entitled a-hole over complaining about the premium cost increase. I've enjoyed nearly 15 years of SL at the same price.

I think the 5% transfer fee will hurt far more in the long run for Content Creators. I don't ever cash out, so it won't affect me in that regard, but I do worry about the SL economy taking a hit. The $20 savings on sim prices will hardly be noticed, as it is still expensive AF to own one. Tax breaks for the rich and all that.

I believe LL never intended to institute strict group limits for basic accounts. It was a distraction to make the other changes more palatable.

Now that we will be paying more, LL should pull their resources back into their profitable product, and put Sansar on the back burner.
 
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Noodles

Queen of Ramen
Joined
Sep 20, 2018
Messages
382
Location
Illinois
SL Rez
2006
Joined SLU
04-28-2010
SLU Posts
6947
If they pump land tier to 2048 I might seriously consider keeping my 4 premium accounts.

The first one that will hit the new rate comes due in October, so they have until then to make adjustments.
 

Beebo Brink

Climate Apocalypse Alarmist
Joined
Sep 20, 2018
Messages
863
As for the rate hike, I don't understand why so many people are freaking out. LL is a for profit business. They were bound to raise prices at some point; especially since it's mostly us premium oldbies who are actually keeping the lights on. 🤷‍♀️
Like most of LL's announcements, it's ham-handed and more of a Marketing/PR failure than a real dick-move. If LL had paired rate/fee hikes with the substantive enhancements they've made over the past year or two, far fewer people would freak out. Rate hike WITH EXTRA PRIMS! Rate hike WITH MORE FREE LAND! People need to feel like they're getting something for their money. By releasing those features to much fanfare months ago, LL undercut themselves. That was the perfect time to nudge rates up a bit. But the glow of appreciation ebbs and now they come along and raise prices with a few really lame changes thrown in and people feel like those hikes are arbitrary and that LL is taking advantage of them as users.

It's all about perception.