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Beebo Brink

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Probably because of the users that stockpile their Stipend to later convert it into actual cash that is then used to offset the cost of their Premium Account.
Why would this be an issue for LL? Can you draw out the association more for me? Virtual economies have never been my strong suit.

I can imagine that one concern is that an increase in stipends will unbalance the economy and weaken the value of the Linden. Those of us who stockpile Lindens to pay off our tier and/or Premium fees are probably a smallish minority. Most users will spend the extra Lindens, which would lead to inflation. Getting Lindens out of the SL economy has always been a challenge since there are limited number of sinks.

I've also heard some oblique comments that seemed to imply that LL rigs the Lindex in unorthodox ways that artificially props up the price of Lindens. If LL is buying up Lindens to stabilize the price -- which WOULD cost them money -- then the last thing they would want is a stipend raise, because it would cost them yet more US$ to buy those excess Lindens and get them out of circulation.

So now it's a balancing act between losing the income from residents who downgrade to Basic versus no longer having those Linden stipend payments in circulation. If LL has been jiggering the economy, the decrease in stipends could be useful. They would no longer have to buy those Lindens using real money.
 
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OrinB

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For those of us that don’t have premium accounts that spend way more than the offset between stipend and membership on transaction fees and payments to other users who do use that conversion for their land or premium membership payments... wtf incentive do we have to become premium or keep up our Linden exchange processes?

Are we accounted for as a legitimate model of free membership?

Me and most of my friends in sl are In this category... high disposal income with no need to become premium. It’s a high majority of those I associate with in sl on a daily basis.

Where is our incentive to make the transition to premium?

I’ve said it in my other post on how much you spend in sl... L$10k per exchange transaction 2-3 times per week is not peanuts for LL. Those fees plus the enablement for others to export lindens out of sl is not insignificant. Plus they don’t have to give me land, stipend or premium shite for me to do so.

My loyalty here is on the edge of ‘poof’ from sl.
 

Adeon Writer

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I used the premium for a cheap double prim 1024sqm plot that could hold 700 prime and like 12 full full region sandboxes that are almost always empty because only premium users can go there and who the heck pays for premium

That and 300L a week making for 6 bucks a month was totally worth it imho even as rarely as I played

If there were other perks I did not use them

Oh I guess I was at my 60 group limit too

Pity I left some now that it’s 70
 

PandoraB

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wow people *really* like their groups. I hardly use them, and if we need a group chat going there is always discord wich is waayyyyy more reliable.
 
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Adeon Writer

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wow people *really* like their groups. I hardly use them, and if we need a group chat going there is always discord wich is waayyyyy more reliable.
I have group chat disabled on most of them, the majority are for land permission access for many different places. This is also the *main* reason groups are limited. Every time you cross a parcel all your permissions in all your roles in all your groups must be checked. That’s a lot of a stuff to check every time you cross a parcel line.
 

OrinB

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wow people *really* like their groups. I hardly use them, and if we need a group chat going there is always discord wich is waayyyyy more reliable.
It's not about liking them, it's the access and info bound up in their necessity! Annoyingly needy :-/
 
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Anya Ristow

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So, I'm weird. I like group chat. I usually ignore it, but even then it feels like I have company. I have the option of tuning in, and sometimes I answer questions, and hope someone does the same for me if I have a question.
 

Maggy Hazelnut

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wow people *really* like their groups. I hardly use them, and if we need a group chat going there is always discord wich is waayyyyy more reliable.
There are a variety of reasons that people use their groups - land access, stores & sales information, work groups (I use 5 groups just for the club I work at), events info & more. It's not just to chat with friends as you seem to imply. In fact I don't think I'm in any group just to chat with friends.
 

Adeon Writer

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For a long while I thought SLers in group chat were a little loopy then I realized you only get like half of the conversation, each message only being sent to half of the recipients, chosen by Mr. Rosedale himself. So each person sees a unique variation of the conversation.

I didn’t use group chat much after that realization.
 

PandoraB

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There are a variety of reasons that people use their groups - land access, stores & sales information, work groups (I use 5 groups just for the club I work at), events info & more. It's not just to chat with friends as you seem to imply. In fact I don't think I'm in any group just to chat with friends.
I know that, but even for the other functions (better) alternatives exist. Stores/Sales/Events information is pretty much these days handled with social media platforms like IG, snapchat, flickr, Seraphim , ect with the majority of brands I follow in SL, lot of those brands dont even bother anymore to post their new products in group notices. Because its a much better way to reach your audience, its more reliable and reaches your customers even when they are offline.

Work groups can easily be handled by discord, anyone can setup a new channel, and you'll be reachable outside SL and on any platform.

So the only thing I can think of that can only be used in groups is parcel managment and you dont need 35 groups for that I think?
 

Maggy Hazelnut

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Pandora, just because the alternatives you suggest fit YOUR needs doesn't mean it fits everyone's needs. Not everyone uses or wants to use Discord, snapchat, Flickr, Facebook, etc. for SL purposes. I've already had a dozen or more stores & other places trying to make me use their Facebook & I had enough of that crap when I started getting links on my personal RL Facebook with crap & people in SL. I don't want my RL mixed with my SL & sure as hell don't want the friend suggestions that came with them to my personal FB account. I also have zero interest in using a voice program of any kind to listen to everyone from kids to old men in SL. That's fine if it works for you but it doesn't work for everyone & certainly not for me.
 

Spirits Rising

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Why would this be an issue for LL? Can you draw out the association more for me? Virtual economies have never been my strong suit.

I can imagine that one concern is that an increase in stipends will unbalance the economy and weaken the value of the Linden. Those of us who stockpile Lindens to pay off our tier and/or Premium fees are probably a smallish minority. Most users will spend the extra Lindens, which would lead to inflation. Getting Lindens out of the SL economy has always been a challenge since there are limited number of sinks.

I've also heard some oblique comments that seemed to imply that LL rigs the Lindex in unorthodox ways that artificially props up the price of Lindens. If LL is buying up Lindens to stabilize the price -- which WOULD cost them money -- then the last thing they would want is a stipend raise, because it would cost them yet more US$ to buy those excess Lindens and get them out of circulation.

So now it's a balancing act between losing the income from residents who downgrade to Basic versus no longer having those Linden stipend payments in circulation. If LL has been jiggering the economy, the decrease in stipends could be useful. They would no longer have to buy those Lindens using real money.
Remember, Linden Dollars have no value outside of Second Life and are - until you Process Credit - valueless "game tokens" akin to Zen and similar purchasable digital tokens. Yes yes, you can cash them out - and many do.

They were not expecting users to do this with their Premium Account Stipend - something they actually do see as an income stream.

What a Premium user is doing when they stockpile their Stipend to convert it close to their renewal date is little more than having Linden Lab pay itself when the renewal comes due.

No matter how the argument is presented, that is the truth of it.

At the current Lindex rates, this means that those currently getting a L$400 or L$500 stipend end up - after stockpiling for a full year - with a slight surplus, going gradually up.

This move would likely have happened much sooner if there had been more users doing this.
 
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Noodles

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Repeat after me: LL does not lose money when it pays you a stipend.

Memberships don't lose LL a single (real) penny just because they pay you a stipend. You have to SELL your Lindens to another player for real US$ and then you use those dollars to pay for your membership and/or tier.
I actually remembered this later. Which means that I feel like this price increase will end up biting them in the ass. Sounds like you are int he same boat.

I have 4 premium accounts now at $72/ year. This is $288 per year. Right now, I actually pay something like MAYBE $100/ year out of pocket total, mostly because I tend to spend my stipend on my main on random crap because I have a spending problem when I'm active in world. 3 of the accounts are mostly or completely covered by the stipend. Except yeah, when I sell that stipend, some other players buys it. LL isn't giving money. I am still giving LL $288/year.

At the new rate, I will very likely drop the 3 alts. So LL will only make $100 off of me.

Except without the alts contributing to my land tier to my group, I am frankly, less likely to log in, which means I may even drop my main off of Premium as well.

Now, on the other hand, when I am active, I have added more land, increasing what LL makes off of me.

I am definitely dropping my current land parcel without my alts which just increases the pool of abandoned land out there, making the world even more empty.

This also isn't a problem that can "fix" by dropping the price either, since once I drop two of those accounts back to basic, they will lose the old 400L stipend, and my main will lose the 500L$ stipend. I won't ever bring these accounts back to premium at 300L$ if they go back to $72.

I realize that no one that can do anything about this will ever read this but I just wanted to point out how dumb the price increase is.
 
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Gear

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It was a bad plan to bump it up all of a sudden out of nowhere. It was also a bad idea to announce a 'Premium Plus' for the future with no details on what it would be.

I am, however, curious how many people this has any impact on...
 

Ashiri

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So now it's a balancing act between losing the income from residents who downgrade to Basic versus no longer having those Linden stipend payments in circulation. If LL has been jiggering the economy, the decrease in stipends could be useful. They would no longer have to buy those Lindens using real money.
This has got me wondering what would happen to the exchange rate should many current premium residents drop premium and buy $L instead of getting a stipend.
 

Beebo Brink

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What a Premium user is doing when they stockpile their Stipend to convert it close to their renewal date is little more than having Linden Lab pay itself when the renewal comes due.
Here is where I lose the track of what you're saying. Because LL does not (supposedly) buy back those Lindens from residents. The Lindex was created so that residents with stockpiles of Lindens would sell them to residents who wanted more Lindens to spend. The only (supposed) involvement that LL has with that process is to get a small transaction fee. And if that's the actually the case, it's irrelevant to LL that residents stockpile their Lindens, it's simply not a concern for them.

The only way that cashing out a stipend would cost LL real money is if they're fucking with the Lindex and propping up the exchange rate. They aren't supposed to be doing that. I don't know whether it's illegal in any way, but it certainly would be a sign of a softening SL market and it's counter to what they CLAIM the Lindex is for.
 

Spirits Rising

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Here is where I lose the track of what you're saying. Because LL does not (supposedly) buy back those Lindens from residents. The Lindex was created so that residents with stockpiles of Lindens would sell them to residents who wanted more Lindens to spend. The only (supposed) involvement that LL has with that process is to get a small transaction fee. And if that's the actually the case, it's irrelevant to LL that residents stockpile their Lindens, it's simply not a concern for them.

The only way that cashing out a stipend would cost LL real money is if they're fucking with the Lindex and propping up the exchange rate. They aren't supposed to be doing that. I don't know whether it's illegal in any way, but it certainly would be a sign of a softening SL market and it's counter to what they CLAIM the Lindex is for.
It's not hard to track or to parse - at all.
 

Victorianna Writer

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There's an UPDATE for Basic Users: It was just posted 3 hours ago

 

Beebo Brink

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What a Premium user is doing when they stockpile their Stipend to convert it close to their renewal date is little more than having Linden Lab pay itself when the renewal comes due.
It's not hard to track or to parse - at all.
So help me out here, cause I'm a bit on the dim side. Where exactly is Linden Lab "paying itself"? You won't answer whether or not you think LL is lying about their role in the Lindex.

Officially, if you sell a Linden on the Lindex, it's being bought by another resident. LL doesn't pay anything to anybody; in fact, they get a fee for every transaction. Officially, LL shouldn't care one bit if you stockpile Lindens and use them to pay Premium.

What is this "truth" of which you speak?