Nobody Cares: PRS

bubblesort

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 16, 2018
Messages
1,990
Are you off your meds? I mean... are you?
That's what I get for trying to take you seriously.

Tell ya what, if you think DNS history is so innocuous, why don't you send your DNS history to something like red zone? It's totally harmless, right? Nothing bad can possibly come from going to the dark net and finding a place where they dump that kind of data, and dumping all your DNS routing history.

I mean... unless, of course, you don't actually know anything about the hack that's being discussed, and don't want to know anything about it, either. I think that's really what's going on here. You are liberal because you follow the liberal team. You enjoy voting for corrupt people like Hillary Clinton and Joe Biden, because you're a cheerleader. I'm liberal because I have liberal ideas, which is completely different. I have no problem calling the Clintons and Bidens of the world corrupt when they deserve it. You would rather insult me than admit they were wrong, because I expose your hypocrisy. Why read the news when you can insult me, instead?

You really should read the news, though. Being angry and uninformed is no way to go through life.
 
  • 1Eye Roll
  • 1* Popcorn *
Reactions: Clara D. and Govi

Katheryne Helendale

🐱 Kitty Queen 🐱
Joined
Sep 20, 2018
Messages
10,603
Location
Right... Behind... You...
SL Rez
2007
Joined SLU
October 2009
SLU Posts
65535
That's what I get for trying to take you seriously.

Tell ya what, if you think DNS history is so innocuous, why don't you send your DNS history to something like red zone? It's totally harmless, right? Nothing bad can possibly come from going to the dark net and finding a place where they dump that kind of data, and dumping all your DNS routing history.

I mean... unless, of course, you don't actually know anything about the hack that's being discussed, and don't want to know anything about it, either. I think that's really what's going on here. You are liberal because you follow the liberal team. You enjoy voting for corrupt people like Hillary Clinton and Joe Biden, because you're a cheerleader. I'm liberal because I have liberal ideas, which is completely different. I have no problem calling the Clintons and Bidens of the world corrupt when they deserve it. You would rather insult me than admit they were wrong, because I expose your hypocrisy. Why read the news when you can insult me, instead?

You really should read the news, though. Being angry and uninformed is no way to go through life.
We just went through four fucking years of the most corrupt presidency in US history, and you're calling Clinton and Biden corrupt? On what fucking grounds? Joe has been doing a pretty amazing job turning the shit sandwich he was given into something palatable. And Hillary? The GQP keep opening investigations on her, over and over again, and have turned up diddly-squat! You say it's because she's that good at hiding it, but I say it's because she's got nothing to hide!

You all should have built the wall with Hillary's emails, because you just can't get over it!
 

bubblesort

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 16, 2018
Messages
1,990
We just went through four fucking years of the most corrupt presidency in US history, and you're calling Clinton and Biden corrupt? On what fucking grounds? Joe has been doing a pretty amazing job turning the shit sandwich he was given into something palatable. And Hillary? The GQP keep opening investigations on her, over and over again, and have turned up diddly-squat! You say it's because she's that good at hiding it, but I say it's because she's got nothing to hide!

You all should have built the wall with Hillary's emails, because you just can't get over it!
Aww, that's disappointing. I was hoping you might want to discuss current events, but you don't seem to actually know about any of them. You see everything in the world as, "Hillary good, Trump bad!" and everything in the universe has to fit into that neat little dichotomy.

Don't let me get in the way of your cheerleading, though. I'm sure Biden's poll numbers will turn around any minute now, just as soon as people like you gaslight progressives a bit more. That's why his poll numbers are low, you know. The democratic party hasn't gaslit progressives hard enough. Keep going, you'll get there some day! I believe in you!
 
  • 1Eye Roll
Reactions: Govi

Argent Stonecutter

Emergency Mustelid Hologram
Joined
Sep 20, 2018
Messages
7,735
Location
Coonspiracy Central, Noonkkot
SL Rez
2005
Joined SLU
Sep 2009
SLU Posts
20780
"DNS routing history" what are you even talking about? What is "DNS routing"? DNS is name/address mapping and contains no routing information. And it's cached so it's always going to be incomplete. And how does it give away your firmware version?
 

bubblesort

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 16, 2018
Messages
1,990
"DNS routing history" what are you even talking about? What is "DNS routing"? DNS is name/address mapping and contains no routing information. And it's cached so it's always going to be incomplete. And how does it give away your firmware version?
Actually, yeah, that's true. At first I thought it was giving full URLs, which is very useful to attackers, even with caching. Turns out, it's just domains. Full URLs can give a lot of information, though. For firmware, for example... aside from the address of where they downloaded the firmware, you also get all the troubleshooting pages they went to, and even the places they asked for help last time they were troubleshooting something, and the answers they got. If I wanted to go after somebody, their google search history alone can be a million times more useful than their IP address and a port scan.

Even with caching, a list of simple domains still provides very actionable information, though! To illustrate:

Lets say you have a rival at the local HOA. You are having a bitter fight over pink flamingos or something. So you want to do bad things to him, and he owns a company, so you're gonna target that company with your evil hacking skills. For whatever reason, your starting point is this list of URLs from their DNS server. Why? How did you get this list? IDK, maybe a Russian gave it to you or something. For whatever stupid reason, I'll just assume you got this list legitimately (because I think people in this thread's heads would explode if we tried going down that rabbit hole). So the domain access history off the DNS server is your starting point...

In the HOA rival's company, lets say there are 30 persons of interest. If you can force them to quit, or blackmail them, or generally fuck up their lives, you can make chaos in the HOA rival's company. Where do you focus your attack? To make this physical, lets say you have 6 private investigators who can tail up to 3 people at a time. So you have to pick 3 people to tell the private investigators to focus on. Who do you focus on?

You probably want the guy who spent lots of time in google spreadsheets, planning things. Even if you get nothing on him, you can learn about the company from him, and if he's the one workaholic that's actually doing all the work in his department, you can fuck up that department by fucking with him. Then you are going to go after the pervert, who spent all day browsing PornHub and Tinder. Then maybe you follow the guy who is hitting the day trading sites all day long. He's got to be insider trading or something. Day traders always have something to hide. If not, go after the guy hitting the casino apps, or the crypto currency apps all day. He's got money problems. There's a million different horrible things you can do to somebody with money problems. I think the chances you get some combination of these 3 types of people in any random group of 30 are pretty good.

At least, that's how I would use it. I'm sure there are others with more active imaginations than me who would handle it differently.
 
  • 1Facepalm
Reactions: Govi
Joined
Sep 19, 2018
Messages
6,769
Location
NJ suburb of Philadelphia
SL Rez
2003
SLU Posts
4494
Even with caching, a list of simple domains still provides very actionable information, though! To illustrate:

You probably want the guy who spent lots of time in google spreadsheets, planning things.
If this article is to be believed you'll only get one result a day from windows typically which won't give much info on who spends "lots of time" on what.

.
 

bubblesort

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 16, 2018
Messages
1,990
If this article is to be believed you'll only get one result a day from windows typically which won't give much info on who spends "lots of time" on what.

.
Allright, yeah, that is weird. Still actionable, because, I mean, if Ashley Madison comes up on that list... people have divorced for less than that before. It's not as bad as I originally thought, though. At first, the impression I had was that they had the full browser traffic, which would be a massive security hole any idiot could drive a truck through.

How did they get this list, though? That's a pretty weird list, I doubt any server would keep it just sitting around. It's got to be the result of a query, right? An investigation that doesn't touch Trump's hardware might compromise border routing systems that connect to Trump's IP addresses for surveilance, but if they did that, they would get more than the simple DNS access records. So they must have compromised a DNS server, and then started querying it about traffic from Trump's IP addresses? That seems pretty elaborate to me. I think this is worth a deeper investigation, even if the data itself doesn't have something like Ashley Madison on it.
 

Argent Stonecutter

Emergency Mustelid Hologram
Joined
Sep 20, 2018
Messages
7,735
Location
Coonspiracy Central, Noonkkot
SL Rez
2005
Joined SLU
Sep 2009
SLU Posts
20780
You probably want the guy who spent lots of time in google spreadsheets, planning things.
You won't get that from DNS lookup history, because that's cached in the browser AND in the OS AND in the company's DNS server, so even if you have compromised the company DNS server (and if you have, why aren't you going further and getting the whole URLs from the firewall?) you'll only get the people who accessed Google Docs at least once a day.

More likely if you're just getting DNS, you've MITMed the whole organization at their ISP (because the ISP is MITM-ing DNS requests anyway, and really this is probably where they got the list from) so you have a VERY broad view of what they're looking at in aggregate.

If they're using Chrome, you don't even have that because it has its own encrypted DNS over HTTP thing.

Source: I have to brainstorm attacks and think up mitigations as part of my job.
 

Casey Pelous

Senior Discount
VVO Supporter 🍦🎈👾❤
Joined
Sep 24, 2018
Messages
3,322
Location
USA, upper left corner
SL Rez
2007
Joined SLU
February, 2011
SLU Posts
10461
I keep hoping someone will accidentally spam hammer it but I'm not sure Cris would buy that one again.

A girl can dream can't she?
I thought he/she would disappear with the rest of the TFG trolls posing as Bernie supporters who Mysteriously Vanished Under Suspicious Circumstances after the election. Guess not.
 

bubblesort

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 16, 2018
Messages
1,990
You won't get that from DNS lookup history, because that's cached in the browser AND in the OS AND in the company's DNS server, so even if you have compromised the company DNS server (and if you have, why aren't you going further and getting the whole URLs from the firewall?) you'll only get the people who accessed Google Docs at least once a day.
Yeah, I agree! This is a really weird dataset to hack, right? I think that's why it took me a little while to wrap my head around it. I admit, I'm stretching to see how the data is useful on it's own. Who grabs DNS lookup history from that high in the hierarchy? I mean, I never ran a DNS server or anything, but that strikes me as bizarre.

More likely if you're just getting DNS, you've MITMed the whole organization at their ISP (because the ISP is MITM-ing DNS requests anyway, and really this is probably where they got the list from) so you have a VERY broad view of what they're looking at in aggregate.

If they're using Chrome, you don't even have that because it has its own encrypted DNS over HTTP thing.
This is so weird, I think either the story is being reported wrong, or it has to be part of something bigger. It's like speeding, if you see somebody exceeding the speed limit by 10-15 MPH, they're just speeding. If you see them exceding it by 100 MPH, maybe they just robbed a bank, because that's a super weird thing to do.

So if we want to speculate on how this data might be useful, to anybody...

Assume the attacker is dumb. In conflicts, dumb people do weird stuff that educated people would never think to try. Then assume the attacker is super well connected politically, but doesn't have too many technical chops. They grab a spear phishing exploit from somewhere and try to use it on the Trump campaign, to install a RAT or something. It doesn't go off, so they start to troubleshoot it. When the RAT hits, it's supposed to go to a certain URL. That URL has problems, so the attacker doesn't know what happened. Did they go to the bad URL or not? Remember, no tech chops. Hacker is a script kiddie, or whatever the kids call them nowadays. Hacker is connected, though, so they contact somebody in the C-suite of Verizon, who just gives them the DNS history.

So yeah, I'd love to see this investigated further, but I'm not sure it can be. From what I understand, in America, your ISP is allowed to sell your DNS history to the highest bidder. If you can sell something, you can certainly gift it, so I don't know that any laws have been broken.

It's clearly unethical to do this, but illegal? IDK, maybe they broke a campaign finance law by accepting data as a gift? That's a stretch.

Source: I have to brainstorm attacks and think up mitigations as part of my job.
I believe you!
 

Free

It's all in my head.
VVO Supporter 🍦🎈👾❤
Joined
Sep 22, 2018
Messages
43,204
Location
Moonbase Caligula
SL Rez
2008
Joined SLU
2009
SLU Posts
55565
A class action lawsuit against the “Freedom Convoy” in downtown Ottawa has added 31 new named defendants and ballooned to a $306-million claim for the disruption to lives and livelihoods from the now three-week old occupation.

The claim has also expanded to include anyone who donated to the convoy after Feb. 4, the day the organizers’ initial GoFundMe campaign was cancelled when the fundraising platform said it had evidence “that the previously peaceful demonstration has become an occupation, with police reports of violence and other unlawful activity.”
 

Dakota Tebaldi

Well-known member
VVO Supporter 🍦🎈👾❤
Joined
Sep 19, 2018
Messages
9,928
Location
Ohio
Joined SLU
02-22-2008
SLU Posts
16791

I think this is a fine idea.

I do think the situation is not quite as dire as some people make it out to be. When I'm out around town I still see kids playing outside here and there. This seems more like a localized problem where you have just certain communities where a few people will call the police whenever they see a child in public and there isn't an adult standing right next to them. For cases like that I think a law like this is useful.
 

eku zhong

Zhonging along.
Joined
Sep 20, 2018
Messages
434
Location
居留守
SL Rez
2007
Joined SLU
Mar 2009
SLU Posts
15419
I think that's why it took me a little while to wrap my head around it. I admit, I'm stretching to see how the data is useful on it's own.
no you didn't. while you thought you had someone who knew even less than you .. you were happy to gaslight and bully, but the minute someone who actually knew something about it called you out.,.. you weewee'ed your pants and started grovelling..

your life must be dull if you need to come troll a niche forum.