#JAILTOTHECHIEF- Shit Just Got Real

[Innula Zenovka]

Those militias existed before him, and they'd be on the street now stirring shit whoever was in the White House. They're backed by the same people who foisted the Tea Party on us.
Those are the people who are maneuvering for power. Dump is just a tool (in more than one sense of the word).

It's your country, not mine, but if I were an American, I would be worrying that these same people who foisted the Tea Party on the US have managed, in 8 years, to take over the Republican Party and the Senate, get Trump elected, gut the federal government and take over much of the judiciary, and now we see the President tweeting in support of these militias as they invade state houses and threaten Democratic governors during an unprecedented public health crisis with immense economic effects that is, because of Trump's misgovernment, going to get much worse before it gets better.

 

[Innula Zenovka]

The article seems pretty thin to me and lacking in deep factual reporting, to be honest. While he probably is trying to lay some groundwork for election mischief and generalissimo what'zhisname certainly has fantasies in that direction, the only action I'm seeing is statements by him and his closest enablers and whatever legal levers he can directly reach. Something like a coup would have a lot of machinery going on in the background - but there is no infrastructure ramp up, no blaring leadups or advocacy in the rightwing media machines, no visible actions from the corporate megastate leading up to this, no discussion in the editorial about legal strategies citing precidence and viable laws and rulings, no one saying "I can't tell you about this", NPR is silent about a coup, and resistance is merely focused on trying to back to business.

Seems pretty light weight.

Possibly so, and it's not my country, obviously, but when I look at what's happened, in recent years, in places Turkey, Hungary, Poland, and Italy, and then look at the USA, I feel very worried about where things are heading.

Do I think there's likely to be a coup? No.

However, since recent years have given me little confidence that the US can organise a fair election even at the best of times, I see massive potential for a contested outcome in November, exacerbated partisan interventions from a packed judiciary, and considerable disruption and possibly violence in places before things settle down.

 

[Kara Spengler]

Possibly so, and it's not my country, obviously, but when I look at what's happened, in recent years, in places Turkey, Hungary, Poland, and Italy, and then look at the USA, I feel very worried about where things are heading.

Do I think there's likely to be a coup? No.

However, since recent years have given me little confidence that the US can organise a fair election even at the best of times, I see massive potential for a contested outcome in November, exacerbated partisan interventions from a packed judiciary, and considerable disruption and possibly violence in places before things settle down.

Oh, it will be contested for sure. He already contested an election that he won, it will be much worse when he loses.

 

[Bartholomew Gallacher]

Disjointed thread:

If people really want to prevent Trump's second term - which might happen due to the crisis now, but who knows - considering the voters of your opponent as stupid is the dumbest thing you can do to yourself.

Because when you do consider them stupiid it means that you don't listen any more, and don't think about what went really wrong and how to win them back.

Personally I met a bunch of Americans who openly supported Trump, most of them are not stupid by any means. The reason why though they voted for him is this they told me: when we vote Democrats what we got is always politicians telling us that we/our ancestors are/were bad, in short making them feel bad about being alive and feeling remorse.

Trump on the other hand told them: it's ok to be you, you are great! Which is finally a change that they welcomed a lot, and that was enough reason for them to vote for him because otherwise they've got little faith in both parties. Democrats, Republicans, doesn't matter - most of the time you'll just get a disconnected president doing little for the people.

 

[Beebo Brink]

Because when you do consider them stupiid it means that you don't listen any more, and don't think about what went really wrong and how to win them back.

Personally I met a bunch of Americans who openly supported Trump, most of them are not stupid by any means. The reason why though they voted for him is this they told me: when we vote Democrats what we got is always politicians telling us that we/our ancestors are/were bad, in short making them feel bad about being alive and feeling remorse.

Okay, they're not stupid, they're just entitled White People, aka racists. We all know exactly how to win those people over, but Trump is the only one who is willing (even eager) to blow all the dog whistles that bring racists to heel. The Democrats aren't selling that crap. I'd like to keep it that way. YMMV

Any American who can't face their own checkered heritage is a snowflake that is selling us out to Russia because their poor widdle feelings have been hurt. My great-grandfather owned slaves. That was "bad", that was fucked up, but you don't see me voting for Trump to spare my own tender sensibilities. People like that make me want to gag.

 

[Bartholomew Gallacher]

Might be, the issue is that probably a big percentage of the people voting for Trump are that way. They are in your country, there are many of them and they won't just get away by getting ignored whether we like it or not. Give them somebody who appeals to them and they'll vote for him, period.

So the long term question is, which needs to be adressed by your society and politicians: how are we able to make those people rethink their own ways? That's possible, but not an easy task and would probably take years, if not more.

 

[Aribeth Zelin]

Okay, they're not stupid, they're just entitled White People, aka racists. We all know exactly how to win those people over, but Trump is the only one who is willing (even eager) to blow all the dog whistles that bring racists to heel. The Democrats aren't selling that crap. I'd like to keep it that way. YMMV

Any American who can't face their own checkered heritage is a snowflake that is selling us out to Russia because their poor widdle feelings have been hurt. My great-grandfather owned slaves. That was "bad", that was fucked up, but you don't see me voting for Trump to spare my own tender sensibilities. People like that make me want to gag.

Totally. My slaveowner ancestor is much further back [like New Rotterdam back] and I can face that just fine [I want to go back in time and shake the crap out of him and ask him WTF was he thinking, but it doesn't get me upset and crying - because it is wrong to own another person.

And I love Anderson Cooper more now - watched some footage of him on Roots, where, upon learning his ancestor was murdered by a 'rebellious' slave [quotes because I don't think its a bad thing] and his response was pretty much 'He deserved it' with no hesitation, no hemming and hawing....

I figure they just want their own slaves, so how dare we say its a bad thing.

 

[Romana]

My grandparents were the first of my forbears to come here, so I don't have any slaveowner ancestors, or, for that matter, any that went west and killed Native Americans, and I'm thankful not to have that heritage. But if I did I wouldn't make up reasons why it' wasn't so bad, or whatever the trumpets say.
It's more than racism with them, though, it's anger, they need someone to hate, and they don't restrict it to POC. They've been Foxed into thinking liberals hate America, and they want to hurt liberals and make them cry. They're bullies.

And, Innula, this has been going on a lot more than 8 years. I can see where it might spear so because of when the Tea Party was first created, but it goes back to Karl Rove, and he was working on it way before that. Others with him, but I don't want to write a novel here.

 

[Soen Eber]

Possibly so, and it's not my country,

Damn Straight! (runs upstairs, slams the bedroom door, turns on loud music, and the smell of weed starts drifting down the stairs).

I HATE YOU!

(It's OK to laugh, this isn't serious)

 

[Innula Zenovka]

And, Innula, this has been going on a lot more than 8 years. I can see where it might spear so because of when the Tea Party was first created, but it goes back to Karl Rove, and he was working on it way before that. Others with him, but I don't want to write a novel here.

Sure, I realise that, but my point is that all the work that successive Republican ideologues, from Barry Goldwater onwards, and successive far right groups from the John Birch Society onwards, and more recently the white Evangelicals and the Christofascist Christian Identarians and the Tea Party and whoever else, have contrived both to elect a completely reckless and irresponsible authoritarian populist as President and hollowed out the US government and judiciary to an extent that they look far more precarious than they did even four years ago.

 

[Sredni Eel]

Carl Sagan was right.


Trump's latest strategy, if you can call it that, is to retweet and quote Q-Anon and OANN talking points that Obama needs to be indicted over "ObamaGate". Apparently Obama is worse than Hitler and committed all kinds of crimes against America, and sabotaged Trump in every way possible before leaving office. Thus he must pay!! He won't answer questions about what crimes Obama supposedly committed. His answer to journalists was literally:

"You know what those crimes are! I don't have to tell you, because it's obvious what the crimes are! Shut up shut up! I don't have to answer you anymore!!"

I won't quote Trump's tweets on this subject, because at last count, he had over 100 on this subject alone between Sunday and today. He is desperate.

The MAGATs and Q-Anon are hashtagging like crazy with stuff like #ObamaGate and #SubpoenaObama

 

[Kamilah Hauptmann]

End of the disjointed thread:

 

[Clara D.]

My grandparents were the first of my forbears to come here, so I don't have any slaveowner ancestors, or, for that matter, any that went west and killed Native Americans, and I'm thankful not to have that heritage. But if I did I wouldn't make up reasons why it' wasn't so bad, or whatever the trumpets say.
It's more than racism with them, though, it's anger, they need someone to hate, and they don't restrict it to POC. They've been Foxed into thinking liberals hate America, and they want to hurt liberals and make them cry. They're bullies.

And, Innula, this has been going on a lot more than 8 years. I can see where it might spear so because of when the Tea Party was first created, but it goes back to Karl Rove, and he was working on it way before that. Others with him, but I don't want to write a novel here.

Easily duped into going along with classism because bullies much prefer to punch downward, so besides being racist pukes, they're also against welfare . . . at least for poor people. They seem fine with corporate welfare and completely fail to yell "ZOMG SOCIALIZM" when it happens; that would be punching upwards, which a bully never does. They'll always cowtow to a bigger bully, hence tRump. A bunch of tools, both as an insult and literal.

My ancestors were mostly racist douchebags. I'm not going to attempt to candy coat it, I just try to do better.

 

[Kara Spengler]

My grandparents were the first of my forbears to come here, so I don't have any slaveowner ancestors, or, for that matter, any that went west and killed Native Americans, and I'm thankful not to have that heritage. But if I did I wouldn't make up reasons why it' wasn't so bad, or whatever the trumpets say.
It's more than racism with them, though, it's anger, they need someone to hate, and they don't restrict it to POC. They've been Foxed into thinking liberals hate America, and they want to hurt liberals and make them cry. They're bullies.

And, Innula, this has been going on a lot more than 8 years. I can see where it might spear so because of when the Tea Party was first created, but it goes back to Karl Rove, and he was working on it way before that. Others with him, but I don't want to write a novel here.

My grandparents and great grandparents were the first to come here (at least on my mom's side, less sure about my dad's side) since it was entire families that immigrated. So we have 0 connection to the shameful parts of us history. Every country has things not to be proud of though (at least my uk and danish ancestries handled ww2 better) and rivalries between villages are pretty much the norm.

 

[Kara Spengler]

Carl Sagan was right.


Trump's latest strategy, if you can call it that, is to retweet and quote Q-Anon and OANN talking points that Obama needs to be indicted over "ObamaGate". Apparently Obama is worse than Hitler and committed all kinds of crimes against America, and sabotaged Trump in every way possible before leaving office. Thus he must pay!! He won't answer questions about what crimes Obama supposedly committed. His answer to journalists was literally:

"You know what those crimes are! I don't have to tell you, because it's obvious what the crimes are! Shut up shut up! I don't have to answer you anymore!!"

I won't quote Trump's tweets on this subject, because at last count, he had over 100 on this subject alone between Sunday and today. He is desperate.

The MAGATs and Q-Anon are hashtagging like crazy with stuff like #ObamaGate and #SubpoenaObama

That has to be one of his top 10 funny moments. 'Specifically what crime is Obamagate? It is obvious! But what crime is it? It is obvious!'

 

[Free]

'Specifically what crime is Obamagate?'

It's the super secret TRUMPGATE!

 

[Jopsy Pendragon]

Someone should start the ONAN channel and make it all about, oh, I dunno... a deepdive study on biblical inheritance issues, compulsory impregnation of widowed sister-in-laws and capital punishment for masturbation. Staff it with fit, nekkid, 20 years olds who're prone to acting out demonstrations.

Claim exemption from tax and censorship law through religious affiliation.. and all the slack-jaw FOX-babe ogling knuckle-draggers will probably make the switch.

 

[Innula Zenovka]

It's the super secret TRUMPGATE!

A deed without a name.

 

[Jopsy Pendragon]

Personally I met a bunch of Americans who openly supported Trump, most of them are not stupid by any means. The reason why though they voted for him is this they told me: when we vote Democrats what we got is always politicians telling us that we/our ancestors are/were bad, in short making them feel bad about being alive and feeling remorse.

There's nothing stupid about collaborating to defend your competitive advantages against the forces that demand equality. Self interest will drive them to adopt all sorts of obviously false narratives, if they seem effective enough.

The hypocrisy and irrationality OF those false narratives is so obviously holes and ignorance that it's easy to ridicule. Attacking it only strengthens the resolve of the useful idiot segment that subscribe to that narrative.

The problem is that the feeling of persecution stems from the insecurity that's been growing over the last 2-3 decades of employers finding new and more insidious ways to screw employees out of pensions, benefits and other things that provide a sense of security to the working class. And thanks to well-funded right wing media and activism, they've created a narrative that shifts the blame from employers to the undefinable 'otherness' of "People Not Like You, Who Are Trying To Steal Your Freedoms" both foreign and domestic.

The conservatives I've spoken with always find a way to trace the problem back to 'The Others' gays, racial minorities, women's liberation, liberal tree-hugging hippies, whatever, and absolve corporations of their own culpability.

Like mistreated dogs, they still fear to bite the hand that feeds them, and instead take out their barely repressed hostility on whatever target might please their masters. Whatever it takes to stay just enough ahead of the other dogs that it keeps you and your family out of trouble for another day.

I'd almost feel pity for them but their ungrateful attitude towards their own advantage it too off-putting.

 

[Jopsy Pendragon]

A deed without a name.

And that dovetails right into the 'gay obama' conspiracy theory...