How COVID-19 is affecting society

[Free]

Nah! Skipper and Gilligan may not have understood science all that well, but they always listened to the Professor.

 

[Free]

*wipes tears*

Maryland anti-stay-at-home protest flops hard as only three people show up

A protest that was planned for Monday morning to protest Republican Maryland Gov. Larry Hogan has flopped hard, as only three people so far have shown up to an event that was scheduled to start more than an hour earlier.Brad Bell, the Maryland bureau chief for ABC 7 News, reported on Monday...

www.rawstory.com

 

[Lady Darnk Juniorette]

 

[Innula Zenovka]

 

[Peony]

Wow! That used to be my home town before I moved to the Sunny State. I’d never even seen a roo along the Linear Park, let alone making its way all the way into the city and up King William Road.

But in typical roo fashion, it manages to threaten to jump in front of the one car that’s there.

 

[Innula Zenovka]

The replies....

 

[Kalel]

wanna get married? now you don't have to leave your house.. atleast in new york.... can we do the same with divorce?

Cuomo issues order allowing New Yorkers to obtain marriage licenses over Zoom

Marriage bureaus across the state are closed because of the coronavirus

www.theverge.com

 

[Aribeth Zelin]

Here in Atlanta we have the State Farmer's Market, where truckloads of fresh produce are resold to restaurants, small groceries, etc. They even sell to individuals from their acres of covered stalls.

These pictures make me homesick, and not for Germany for a change. It doesn't seemed to have changed a bit since the late 70s, when we'd go almost every weekend to buy fruits and veggies [we lived pretty close, that's the jr high I went to [Forest Park]

 

[Jolene Benoir]

So...I spent the morning talking to a clearly Trumper friend that I have in GTA. We talked about all manner of things, but in particular the virus. They are clearly of the opinion that the "cure can be worse than the disease". They favor opening back up because people losing their livelihood can be just as bad as the lives that are lost, could lead to suicide and such.

We never once got ugly with each other. It was very respectful on both sides.

We did agree, in the end, that it's really a location issue. Each location needs to determine its own needs. I made the point the our central government needs to support each location as it makes its choice in how to handle it and not demand that it's a "One situation fits all" thing. It goes right down to even the family/housing threat. For example, they have low threat, they live alone. I have high threat were I to bring it home due to a number of folks that I live with who are at high risk. NYC is a very different animal than say, some little town in the middle of nowhere, though I also believe that because of how often people travel I don't believe that just because you live in a small town, you are necessarily exempt.

Just wanted to share this, as this thing is testing us all. It's testing our resolve, it's testing our beliefs, it is testing our very basic outlook upon life.

Just as an aside, they are from Utah, I am from Minnesota. I couldn't get over how much our upbringing, location came to bear in our beliefs.

 

[Beebo Brink]

Speaking of Piers Morgan... He has a few not so nice things to say about his old friend Trump!

Mr. Morgan isn't very bright, is he? All the qualities that he expects of a president during a crisis are precisely the qualities that Trump is incapable of delivering. This is not news. Anyone who knows Trumps -- as Morgan claims to do -- should be perfectly aware that a sociopathic narcissist isn't going to sudden change his maladjusted behavior. Trump doesn't care that Americans will die, yet Morgan keeps proclaiming this as if it will somehow have an effect. It won't. Which is precisely why so many of us did not want him as president in the first place. He is uniquely unfit for holding that office.

 

[Casey Pelous]

So...I spent the morning talking to a clearly Trumper friend that I have in GTA. We talked about all manner of things, but in particular the virus. They are clearly of the opinion that the "cure can be worse than the disease". They favor opening back up because people losing their livelihood can be just as bad as the lives that are lost, could lead to suicide and such. ...

The problem is, as I'm sure you realize, the choice called "have the economy prosper at the expense of some lives" doesn't really exist, except in the fevered minds of the cult members.

What's on the menu is, "Stay home, have the economy turn to crap for a while, but don't overwhelm the medical system. Plus fewer dead or disabled people." The other choice is, "Don't stay home, have the disease run rampant, and have the economy turn to crap for even longer. Plus lots of dead or disabled people, not just from COVID-19, but from all the other stuff that can kill you if you don't get definitive medical care promptly."

 

[Jolene Benoir]

The problem is, as I'm sure you realize, the choice called "have the economy prosper at the expense of some lives" doesn't really exist, except in the fevered minds of the cult members.

What's on the menu is, "Stay home, have the economy turn to crap for a while, but don't overwhelm the medical system. Plus fewer dead or disabled people." The other choice is, "Don't stay home, have the disease run rampant, and have the economy turn to crap for even longer. Plus lots of dead or disabled people, not just from COVID-19, but from all the other stuff that can kill you if you don't get definitive medical care promptly."

I am with you, but at the same time, I do understand their point that as we continue the lockdown lives are being ruined in that manner as well.

I am of the opinion that we need to keep the lockdown as we allow our doctors to develop tests and such. We've gone from 5 day out tests to same day. That can only help us if we allow ourselves a bit longer.

It's so hard. I, for one, am not willing to *allow* any deaths due to mismanagement, and especially in the name of money. I think I'm pretty clear where I fall on that. We've already seen that is distinctly what some think is just fine, as long as it isn't their family and friends. That's why we see these people in Michigan who don't live in Detroit out there marching. Their risk is much less that Detroit, which is under assault.

Is this going to be an issue that Trump will unite the rural vs city over? Probably, yes. I think that he and his cronies want to use this as an issue going into the November election. The thing is: there is a very big difference between being completely callous to the loss of life in the name of profit as he and his are and realize that there is indeed major financial ruin to people that own small businesses and the like.

At the same time I am sympathizing with those, such as Aeon, who knew? that are experiencing great financial ruin. Lives vs profit, well yeah I'm going to ALWAYS side with lives, but yet, there ARE people who are facing ruin. It's not easy.

 

[Cindy Claveau]

 

[Kalel]

For example, they have low threat, they live alone. I have high threat were I to bring it home due to a number of folks that I live with who are at high risk. NYC is a very different animal than say, some little town in the middle of nowhere, though I also believe that because of how often people travel I don't believe that just because you live in a small town, you are necessarily exempt.

Thats the issue we have in florida and why it look forever to get into lockdown state... most cases are in the metro areas while smaller cities don't have as many cases want to still open and continue life.. yet we have old people everywhere and tourist\people who love to travel.. it's just a perfect climate. if the state local was more coordinated between smaller cities it would be easier to contain. bills haven't stopped.. rent is still due... people still need food. allot of non-corvid related cases to deal with.

screw the living prevent deaths at the cost of the enecomy? or keep it open and take the chance that it could cost more people lives when its all over? would you rather be alive, broke, and homeless or open everything with chance you might die?

it's a life or death question. ethics and morals are in play now...

 

[Beebo Brink]

So let's say we open up a region (whether it be city or state) and legally allow any business to open, to "restore the economy." What exactly do you expect will happen?

Speaking for myself, as someone in a vulnerable category who fully believes in the existence of this virus and that it's far more than "just the flu", I won't be going out regardless of what the mayor, the governor or the president says. I'm not attending restaurants, bars, movie theaters, spas, or gym. I may be in a minority, but I won't be the only person making this decision, so that's one segment of the population that will not add to the local economy.

What happens to the population that is ready to go out and about or feels they have no choice but return to their job? Here's a use case scenario:

The local restaurant opens, and a few people drift in and more-or-less engage in social distancing while dining, but some don't. A week later a waiter gets sick. A few days later the dishwasher and the cook start showing symptoms and everyone on staff hears that the first waiter is now in the ICU of the local hospital. One waiter shows up for work the next day; everyone else is either too sick or too afraid to come in.

Customers come in and try to place an order, then hear from the one overwhelmed waiter that there's no food because cook is out sick, the cashier is out sick. When pressed, he blurts out that half the restaurant staff have COVID-19. The customers flee and post the news on Facebook "Did you know the (restaurant) is crawling with coronovirus!! My god, I was in there today and I hope I didn't touch anything!!"

Restaurant closes. Everyone loses their job.

Three weeks later the first waiter is recuperating, but the cook has died. Several of the customers have also gotten sick. One of them caught coronovirus at the gym, but he thinks he caught it at the restaurant and he sues.

What have we gained?

 

[Jolene Benoir]

To be honest here, how many of they who are low risk themsevles are actually going to quarantine themselves to only those that they know and pose a danger to? No, America, the "Home of the free and "Land of the Brave" seems more likely to me. We are invincible, only to find those folks later having to facetime their dying relatives?

We've already seen scene upon scene of those going on beaches, enjoying their vacations that really didn't give fuck-all identification with the idea that they, themselves, might be spreaders of it. I suppose, if you sat each down, and talked to them about the family members they might bring it back to, they might take a pause and consider it, and think twice, but as a rule they are not doing so. They might, heartfully, and believedly have fear of bringing it home to their loved ones, but it hasn't stopped them, as they have their "fun in the sun". I think the problem is that many think it won't affect them until they see it up close and person, lose a loved one. Bit too late there, ya fools.

 

[Govi]

Recently, a lengthy review of what happened to communities after the 1918 flu pandemic which imposed stay-at-home orders at differing stages of their pandemic cycle. Two of the examples stuck in my head: Los Angeles versus San Francisco. LA imposed its order early in the cycle. Bowing to business clamor, SF imposed its order rather later in the cycle. The two cities had very different outcomes, according to the review. LA's economy bounced back very quickly, whereas SF's economy suffered for a much longer period.

The theory propounded for this difference was that LA's strategy (early stay-at-home order) allowed for a resultant healthier population who were thus more energetic at getting things going again. SF's strategy resulted in a less healthy population who had to spend more (but had less) energy to put things to rights.

I'll try to find a link to the article and come back to add a post with the link. I've read so much about this stuff of late, that a simple search of my browser history may not give quick results. It may even have been posted here already; if so, I'm thankful to the poster.

 

[Jolene Benoir]

So let's say we open up a region (whether it be city or state) and legally allow any business to open, to "restore the economy." What exactly do you expect will happen?

Speaking for myself, as someone in a vulnerable category who fully believes in the existence of this virus and that it's far more than "just the flu", I won't be going out regardless of what the mayor, the governor or the president says. I'm not attending restaurants, bars, movie theaters, spas, or gym. I may be in a minority, but I won't be the only person making this decision, so that's one segment of the population that will not add to the local economy.

What happens to the population that is ready to go out and about or feels they have no choice but return to their job? Here's a use case scenario:

The local restaurant opens, and a few people drift in and more-or-less engage in social distancing while dining, but some don't. A week later a waiter gets sick. A few days later the dishwasher and the cook start showing symptoms and everyone on staff hears that the first waiter is now in the ICU of the local hospital. One waiter shows up for work the next day; everyone else is either too sick or too afraid to come in.

Customers come in and try to place an order, then hear from the one overwhelmed waiter that there's no food because cook is out sick, the cashier is out sick. When pressed, he blurts out that half the restaurant staff have COVID-19. The customers flee and post the news on Facebook "Did you know the (restaurant) is crawling with coronovirus!! My god, I was in there today and I hope I didn't touch anything!!"

Restaurant closes. Everyone loses their job.

Three weeks later the first waiter is recuperating, but the cook has died. Several of the customers have also gotten sick. One of them caught coronovirus at the gym, but he thinks he caught it at the restaurant and he sues.

What have we gained?

Yep, I am in agreement. I am going to treat this thing as if I am NOT safe, and in particular those of my loved ones. I am gong to treat it as the 1918 epidemic. Yeah, sure, it is gong to ease up. Many may be tempted to think it is done. Not me. I'm going to remain vigilant.

I am not going to fuck around.

The govenment says it is safe? Trump's total control over the government. Yeah, I don't think so.

 

[Casey Pelous]

The idea that we're going to have the economy get well, or even get back to something we'd have called normal a couple of months ago, is a pipe dream, even if we lifted all the stay home orders tomorrow.

As an example, I'll use our friendly local airplane company, Boeing. They've "reopened" and called back a few thousand workers. Sounds dandy on the face of it.

1) There are still lots of folks furloughed, partly because Boeing hasn't worked out how to build big airplanes with lots of confined spaces while maintaining social distancing but mostly because the airplane market is on its collective butt and it looks like it will stay that way for a long time since no one in their right mind is getting on an airplane.

2) Boeing is offering some snazzy early retirement packages and "paid layoff" ("here, take some dough and GTFO ...") packages because they know they're headed to the cellar. They not only can't sell any new airplanes, they can't deliver the ones they've already built because a) airlines won't take delivery and b) oh, yeah, that whole 737 Max thing where they fall out of the sky, but mostly a).

3) They shut down in the first place because one of their workers died of COVID-19. The union had been making noises about COVID-19 safety even before that, and they say they'll be "watching the new procedures very closely."

A huge percentage of Boeing's expenditures go to outside suppliers all over the globe. Guess what's going to happen to them? And so it will ripple out ...

Hereabouts you can't throw a rock without hitting a Boeing employee. Guess what's going to happen to all the places they shop?

As Jolene said, I'm staying vigilant, and I imagine that goes for more than just Jolene and me.

 

[Govi]

Here's the link to the New York Times article I wrote about:
Cities That Went All In on Social Distancing in 1918 Emerged Stronger for It