Dems Need To Learn From the UK Election to UNITE under one message: GET HIM OUT!

[Innula Zenovka]

If this was designed to make sense, yes! She didn't even say that. Clinton's smear is just a bunch of nonsense from a number of angles.

No, the proposition that Russia seeks to disrupt the 2020 US presidential elections is wholly compatible with the proposition they're deploying their bots and fake accounts on behalf of a number of different candidates, so as to cause as much disruption as possible.

The candidates don't even have to be aware of that's being done on their behalf -- the Russians simply want to ensure the whole process is as disruptive as possible by backing the candidates most likely to cause divisions inside their own parties and among the electorate as a whole, and to try to ensure that, whatever the outcome of the elections, the US ends up with an ineffective and divisive president.

The accusation that Jill Stein is some form of Russian asset (in the sense she's someone they think they can manipulate) is a separate one, presumably based on the fact she enjoys, or did enjoy, very good relations with senior Russian politicians, moving in similar circles to the ones in which MIchael Flynn moved -- you'll remember that photograph of the dinner they both attended whether they were seated with President Putin at his table.

Russia seeks to reduce the power and influence of the US internationally. One of the ways it does it is to try to disrupt elections so the outcome is a weak and incompetent president, no matter who wins, and another is to try to discredit the whole idea of Western liberal democracy on the international stage by turning the elections of the country that likes to hold itself up as a showpiece for this method of government into a shambolic circus. It seems to be succeeding admirably in this goal.

Clinton's allegations, while not necessarily true, are certainly more than "just a bunch of nonsense" when considered from that perspective.

 

[Cristalle]

I'm sorry, I don't buy this because it's completely unfounded. It's all innuendo, and that's the point. Hillary Clinton is a former Secretary of State and likely still has access to a lot of sensitive information. You don't throw out those kinds of accusations without evidence. The existence of a few bots making memes that only a few people saw is not evidence of presidential candidates being Russian assets. This whole point of this exercise is to discredit People by calling them associated with Russians, guilt by association.

 

[Innula Zenovka]

I'm sorry, I don't buy this because it's completely unfounded. It's all innuendo, and that's the point. Hillary Clinton is a former Secretary of State and likely still has access to a lot of sensitive information. You don't throw out those kinds of accusations without evidence. The existence of a few bots making memes that only a few people saw is not evidence of presidential candidates being Russian assets. This whole point of this exercise is to discredit People by calling them associated with Russians, guilt by association.

Whether Jill Stein courted their support or not, it's certainly the case that Russia apparently deployed more than "a few bots" on behalf of Jill Stein in the 2016 Election, apparently in order to encourage black voters to support her in preference to Clinton, thus assisting Trump:

Russians launched pro-Jill Stein social media blitz to help Trump, reports say

Building support for Stein was one of a “roster of themes” the Moscow-sanctioned internet trolls “turned to repeatedly,” report says.

www.nbcnews.com

Certainly, too, she enjoys, or did enjoy, sufficient favour with President Putin to sit at his table for dinner alongside Michael Flynn at a gala dinner in 2015 to celebrate the 10th anniversary of his propaganda station, Russia Today:

Guess who came to dinner with Flynn and Putin

NBC News reviewed video and photos from a 2015 Moscow gala that Mike Flynn was paid $45,000 to attend to see who else was in the room.

www.nbcnews.com

So I think it's fair to say that she certainly enjoyed considerable high-level support in Russia, at least back in 2015 and 2016. I also say I have to question her judgement in accepting an invitation to a gala dinner in support of a station like Russia Today.

 

[Kamilah Hauptmann]

Democrats Somehow Lose Primaries

WASHINGTON, DC—In a surprising last-minute upset, all seven Democratic presidential hopefuls somehow lost the Democratic primaries Tuesday.

politics.theonion.com

 

[Essence Lumin]

The title of this thread is discouraging to me. Get him out is not a reason. There have to be actual positive reasons of which there are many. Get him out is not one of them.

 

[Cristalle]

Whether Jill Stein courted their support or not, it's certainly the case that Russia apparently deployed more than "a few bots" on behalf of Jill Stein in the 2016 Election, apparently in order to encourage black voters to support her in preference to Clinton, thus assisting Trump:

Russians launched pro-Jill Stein social media blitz to help Trump, reports say

Building support for Stein was one of a “roster of themes” the Moscow-sanctioned internet trolls “turned to repeatedly,” report says.

www.nbcnews.com

Certainly, too, she enjoys, or did enjoy, sufficient favour with President Putin to sit at his table for dinner alongside Michael Flynn at a gala dinner in 2015 to celebrate the 10th anniversary of his propaganda station, Russia Today:

Guess who came to dinner with Flynn and Putin

NBC News reviewed video and photos from a 2015 Moscow gala that Mike Flynn was paid $45,000 to attend to see who else was in the room.

www.nbcnews.com

So I think it's fair to say that she certainly enjoyed considerable high-level support in Russia, at least back in 2015 and 2016. I also say I have to question her judgement in accepting an invitation to a gala dinner in support of a station like Russia Today.

From your first article:

Building support for Stein was one of a “roster of themes” the Moscow-sanctioned internet trolls “turned to repeatedly” in their effort to disrupt the election, according to a research team led by the New Knowledge cybersecurity firm. The researchers also found that the campaign to bolster Stein gained in intensity in the final days of the presidential campaign and largely targeted African-American voters.

New Knowledge was banned by Facebook for its disinformation tactics.

Facebook suspends accounts that used disinformation tactics in Alabama’s special election

The five accounts were part of a project intended to study disinformation tactics, rather than influence the election

www.theverge.com

And as for Stein's encounter with Putin, it is overstated.

Keller @ Large: Jill Stein Defends Appearance At Russian Dinner With Putin

What was Jill Stein doing at Vladamir Putin's table at a December 2015 banquet in Russia?

boston.cbslocal.com

She has cooperated with the various investigations and there is bupkiss in response to that. She provided documents and emails to the Senate, she paid her own way to the dinner, and there were plenty of other famous or important people at the dinner.

Everyone trots out the innuendo.

 

[Brenda Archer]

Clinton called Jill Stein a "Russian asset," but she used the word ALSO in that quote, indicating that she did indeed mean to infer that Gabbard is a Russian asset. They only walked it back to "Republican asset" post hoc because of the serious implications of calling a currently serving Army officer a traitor.

As for Tlaib, it's not just about what Hillary has done to Gabbard. It's about her continuing to spread the lies about Bernie hurting her because he had the temerity to finish the race, and didn't endorse her right away, even though he worked 4x as hard for her as she did for Obama. This coming from the woman who wouldn't bow out against Obama in case he was murdered like RFK.

Um, what? Why should she have to bow out? It would have been an awful circumstance, but that doesn’t lay an obligation on anyone else to stop carrying on.

 

[Ariane]

The title of this thread is discouraging to me. Get him out is not a reason. There have to be actual positive reasons of which there are many. Get him out is not one of them.

Name one that is more important.

I guarantee that anything you name will have "get him out" as a prerequisite. There is no saving democracy, or justice, or truth without "get him out". Trump must leave! Our country depends on it!

 

[Kamilah Hauptmann]

And a large chunk of the Senate, the House, and a lot of Americans who watched Trump make fun of a disabled reporter and thought, MURICA, FUCK YEAH!

 

[Cristalle]

Um, what? Why should she have to bow out? It would have been an awful circumstance, but that doesn’t lay an obligation on anyone else to stop carrying on.

I am just saying that she had her reasons for staying in beyond the point when it was clear that she would lose, and she doesn't afford Bernie the same.

 

[Brenda Archer]

The title of this thread is discouraging to me. Get him out is not a reason. There have to be actual positive reasons of which there are many. Get him out is not one of them.

*blink*

I’d literally vote for the dog catcher (or the dog) before I’d vote for Trump or sit it out. There are actually a good number of voters thinking the same thing, and not all of them are Dems.

 

[Brenda Archer]

New Knowledge was banned by Facebook for its disinformation tactics.

Facebook suspends accounts that used disinformation tactics in Alabama’s special election

The five accounts were part of a project intended to study disinformation tactics, rather than influence the election

www.theverge.com

What the article says:

In a statement to the Post, Facebook pointed to its efforts to remove pages and profiles that traffic in behavior designed to impact elections, “as well as accounts that were violating our policies on spam and coordinated inauthentic behavior during the Alabama special election last year,” although the company noted that pages used by New Knowledge itself hadn’t violated its policies.

Facebook has been disciplining Left and counterculture pages while letting hard Right ones slide.

A ban coming from the likes of Facebook doesn’t reduce my estimation of researchers testing to see how the problems on Facebook work. This is exactly what security researchers trying to replicate an issue might do.

 

[Brenda Archer]

I am just saying that she had her reasons for staying in beyond the point when it was clear that she would lose, and she doesn't afford Bernie the same.

I have no idea what this even means.

You complain about what you think is unverifiable innuendo, and now you’re doing it. “She had her reasons” sounds like mind reading without concrete examples.

 

[Cristalle]

I have no idea what this even means.

You complain about what you think is unverifiable innuendo, and now you’re doing it. “She had her reasons” sounds like mind reading without concrete examples.

WTF is this? I personally thought her reason was offensive bullshit but I did not offer my personal comment, I let the ridiculousness of it stand alone, because it's in the historical record. You came back with your comment and all I said is that she decided to stay in. I wasn't making "unverifiable innuendo." I already gave her stated reason as to why she stayed in. I am not posturing as to why beyond her own stated reasons for staying in. Stop reading what isn't there.

 

[Kamilah Hauptmann]

 

[Essence Lumin]

*blink*

I’d literally vote for the dog catcher (or the dog) before I’d vote for Trump or sit it out. There are actually a good number of voters thinking the same thing, and not all of them are Dems.

Would you vote for Pence? Because he would be worse. And in the highly unlikely event that the orange one is convicted that is who we will get.

 

[Essence Lumin]

The whole idea of anyone other than the orange one doesn't cut it. I'm 61 with no kids so I guess it doesn't matter if the world dies from lack of care about climate change for instance. Many other things need to be changed immediately looking out over the next couple of decades, maybe more or much less. Bloomberg and Hillary wish to just keep things going in their current direction which is dismal. Major change is important though and the current candidates are not providing radical solutions that are needed.

 

[Anya Ristow]

Um, what? Why should she have to bow out? It would have been an awful circumstance, but that doesn’t lay an obligation on anyone else to stop carrying on.

She's talking about the reason HRC gave for not bowing out in 2008, not a circumstance under which she would bow out. In an interview, HRC said she would stay in the race because, you know, Bobby Kennedy was assassinated in June. Never know if that might happen to Obama!

 

[Innula Zenovka]

From your first article:

New Knowledge was banned by Facebook for its disinformation tactics.

Facebook suspends accounts that used disinformation tactics in Alabama’s special election

The five accounts were part of a project intended to study disinformation tactics, rather than influence the election

www.theverge.com

The report, I see agreed with a separate report by the University of Oxford, who have not yet (as far as I know) been suspended from Facebook for dodgy practices:

http://media1.s-nbcnews.com/i/today/z_creative/IRAReport17Dec.pdf

Russia favored Trump, targeted African-Americans with election meddling, reports say

The Russians set up 30 Facebook pages targeting black Americans, researchers found, and 10 YouTube channels that posted 571 videos related to police violence against African-Americans.

www.nbcnews.com

And as for Stein's encounter with Putin, it is overstated.

Keller @ Large: Jill Stein Defends Appearance At Russian Dinner With Putin

What was Jill Stein doing at Vladamir Putin's table at a December 2015 banquet in Russia?

boston.cbslocal.com

She has cooperated with the various investigations and there is bupkiss in response to that. She provided documents and emails to the Senate, she paid her own way to the dinner, and there were plenty of other famous or important people at the dinner.

Everyone trots out the innuendo.

Indeed there were plenty of other famous or important people at the dinner, but the only two Americans, I think, sitting at Putin's table were Jill Stein and General Flynn. Just a weird coincidence, perhaps.

 

[Innula Zenovka]

She's talking about the reason HRC gave for not bowing out in 2008, not a circumstance under which she would bow out. In an interview, HRC said she would stay in the race because, you know, Bobby Kennedy was assassinated in June. Never know if that might happen to Obama!

You have me saying something about Clinton's reasons for not bowing out.

It wasn't me who said it.