Democratic Party Presidential Candidates for 2020

Cristalle

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Bernie Sanders Appalled by Sneaker Resale Prices on 'Desus & Mero'

This is a great interview, very funny and still with some policy substance thrown in because that's how Bernie rolls. This is the so-called angry man. He's angry at the right people for the right reasons. But with normal people, he's really warm and personable.
 
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Lianne Marten

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Warren’s healthcare plan is absolute nonsense and I cannot believe anyone is taking it seriously. I had soured on her already, but I am in shock at how vague and wrong-headed it is.
Why, what's wrong with it? Being rich is immoral and a leech on society, they don't need that money and it should be used to help people instead of driving up a high score.
 
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Anya Ristow

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Why, what's wrong with it? Being rich is immoral and a leech on society, they don't need that money and it should be used to help people instead of driving up a high score.
Cenk Uygur thinks it's brilliant.


I think it's based on unrealistic assumptions. Some cynical Bernie Bros think that's intentional, and when she fails to get it funded she can say she gave it a good try, but it just seems to be impossible to pass something so big.
 

Salome

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Why, what's wrong with it? Being rich is immoral and a leech on society, they don't need that money and it should be used to help people instead of driving up a high score.
What are you talking about? Who said anything about the rich? Her plan has serious flaws and concerns.

1) She’s implied part of how she will pay for the plan is by overhauling immigration. This is nonsense. For one, the GOP has been sabotaging immigration reform for decades. But more importantly, immigrating reform will not bring in new taxes. Both legal immigrants and undocumented workers already pay taxes, Billion in taxes, in fact, for social services they do not often get to benefit from. Meaningful immigration reform is a moral imperitive, but it will not be a significant source of new revenue,

2) Her plan does not account for phasing over. This is not only significantly more costly, but it puts millions of jobs in danger, and so far her response to that concern has been that “they’ll find other jobs.” No Democrat is going to win on a plan that eliminated two million estimated jobs, ffs.

3) Her plan says she won’t raise taxes on the middle class, but she shadily doesn’t define middle class the way other candidates do. Harris specifies there will be no new taxes for families making under 100k (with allowances for those in high cost areas). Bernie specifies no new taxes for those making under 29k. Warren continues to dodge.

This doesn’t even touch on the problems with intersectionality concerns I’ve seen many WOC criticizing.

I am shocked at how ill thought out her proposal is.
 

Salome

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I’m confused. Are you implying that we don’t vet a candidate’s plans because other candidates might get the nomination?
 

Lianne Marten

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I'm just not sure why we're using Republican talking points in the Democratic primary.

And her mention of immigration reform as part of where the money will come from comes from a CBO Report so if you disagree with it maybe cite why your numbers are better than theirs.

I don't think taxes are bad and we should be paying money into making our society a better place.
 
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Salome

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I'm just not sure why we're using Republican talking points in the Democratic primary.
Remind me. Which Republican talking point am I being accused of using this time?

I don't think taxes are bad and we should be paying money into making our society a better place.
Putting aside that too often when new taxes and fees are implemented the benefits they’re supposed to provide don’t materialize, leading voters to be wary of those kinds of promises, running a presidential campaign on raising taxes and losing millions of jobs is political insanity.She’s going to have to do a lot better than the shitty messaging she’s had so far to make it palatable in a general election.

The report you’re referencing was commissioned to try and pass an Amnesty bill and it was more than massaged to make it as palatable as possible to moderates. At the time it was put out, it took a great deal of criticism over its dodgy methodology. It all but eliminates border security (which is never going to happen) and misrepresents several budget items (it mistakenly adds estimated FICA taxes as going toward the budget when they go directly to the SS fund, for example). But even trying to make that as positive as possible, it still admits any new influx of the estimated population will result an initial period of higher unemployment and lower wages for several years before things balance out and that’s before they had to factor in all those new residents being extended instant Medicare. I am 100% in favor of more liberal immigration policy because it is a moral imperative, but immigration always costs in the short term and doesn’t pay benefits until down the line — often a full generation down the line. It is deeply dishonest to pretend it’ll help fund her plan.

*****EDITING to cite sources so I don’t get accused of being a Republican again.*****
Here’s a good summary from PBS busting some common anti-immigration Republican myths. Key point:

First-generation immigrants cost the government more than native-born Americans, according to the report — about $1,600 per person annually. But second generation immigrants are “among the strongest fiscal and economic contributors in the U.S.,” the report found. They contribute about $1,700 per person per year. All other native-born Americans, including third generation immigrants, contribute $1,300 per year on average.
Please also note that it points out that many immigrants feel a stigma about utilizing social safety nets and services even when they’re eligible, despite the fact that both documented and undocumented immigrants pay billions into those services. We are — right now — currently benefitting from exploiting immigrants in this manner and that surplus would not exist if we engaged in just, meaningful reform because we would be extending those benefits (as we should have been doing all along).

What most people fail to realize is that the billionaire class push against immigration isn’t just about racism — it’s about trying to sabotage and destroy Social Security. This is something the GOP has been unable to do through legislation because Social Security is popular, even with Republicans, The billions undocumented workers pay into Social Security (but can never benefit from) is part of what’s getting the Social Security fund through the Boomer crisis. This is their best chance to bankrupt it and that’s a huge factor (along with the racism) in why they are terrorizing immigrants and asylum seekers.
 
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Cristalle

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Why, what's wrong with it? Being rich is immoral and a leech on society, they don't need that money and it should be used to help people instead of driving up a high score.
The way it's distributed is bad, and it's easily evaded by making all your workers into independent contractors.
Cenk Uygur thinks it's brilliant.


I think it's based on unrealistic assumptions. Some cynical Bernie Bros think that's intentional, and when she fails to get it funded she can say she gave it a good try, but it just seems to be impossible to pass something so big.
It's brilliant as a means of manipulating the media but it has some real flaws.


My biggest critique is that it's easy to evade, by throwing people into independent contractor status, which will make things worse on that front.
 
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Beebo Brink

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Ha! this seems especially timely for the current discussion:

So if the Democratic nominee is an advocate of M4A — as are Warren, Bernie Sanders and Kamala Harris (sort of) — will that doom his or her campaign, or even damage it significantly?

The answer is that it probably won’t. But there’s an important reason so many liberals — even many who would personally prefer a single-payer system — believe that it will. Liberals care deeply about policy. As a consequence, they often drastically overestimate the degree to which voters care about policy, or even grasp policy distinctions.
Democrats have a dangerous misconception about policy and campaigns
 

Cristalle

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They had to change venues to an arena. Minnesota is not a lock for Klobuchar.

 
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Jolene Benoir

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They had to change venues to an arena. Minnesota is not a lock for Klobuchar.

It never was a lock. There have been any number of polls, both formal and informal which show a few different candidates well ahead of her. Let me be clear, Amy Klobuchar is very well-liked in Minnesota; as our Senator. She will likely still remain quite popular, again, as our Senator. She probably has lost some support due to the reports of how she treated her staff, but I don't think that's why her campaign is so tepid. She hasn't been very aggressive in campaigning at all if her intent was to win the nomination for president. I think, personally, that she may have been hoping more to be a vp pick. If so, that's likely washed away with Biden's troubles. He is the only one that I could have seen picking her for vp.

I don't know why the point is that Minnesota may be in play for Bernie. Um, yeah? We did vote for him last time around.
 

danielravennest

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I think it's based on unrealistic assumptions. Some cynical Bernie Bros think that's intentional, and when she fails to get it funded she can say she gave it a good try, but it just seems to be impossible to pass something so big.
The reason it is so big is healthcare costs are out of control. A week in the hospital can cost $100K, drugs can cost more than your mortgage, and I just found out my current plan is going up 15% next year, when inflation is only 2%. It's up 400% from a decade ago.

I don't know if the Medicare for All proposals include negotiating prices, but if they don't, it will break the national economy. We are already facing the existing Medicare program running out of money in seven years. We need to rein in costs *first*, and then think about how to cover more people.
 
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Beebo Brink

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She probably has lost some support due to the reports of how she treated her staff, but I don't think that's why her campaign is so tepid. She hasn't been very aggressive in campaigning at all if her intent was to win the nomination for president.
Her central message appears to be "I'm from the Midwest and I'm not scary. Vote for me."
 
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Katheryne Helendale

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I’m confused. Are you implying that we don’t vet a candidate’s plans because other candidates might get the nomination?
I'm going all-in for Giant Meteor, 2020. It seems to be our best option.
 

Anya Ristow

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I don't know if the Medicare for All proposals include negotiating prices, but if they don't, it will break the national economy. We are already facing the existing Medicare program running out of money in seven years. We need to rein in costs *first*, and then think about how to cover more people.
You are right. Any plan has to address controlling costs. That's why it's so important to not let private insurance companies duplicate coverage. Part of the cost of the American system is in duplicate billing systems, duplicate coding systems, multiple coverage requirements, lack of price transparency (which is in part due to complexity), etc.

And the inability of Medicare to negotiate drug prices. That's a really sweet deal, isn't it? That's what happens when lobbyists write laws, and paid-for politicians pass them.