Covid-19 vaccine thread

Romana

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How is that determined? I mean, if it's not people with prior infection by other specific and quite unusual coronaviruses, how can you make a comparison between the two groups (primed and not primed), and how do you know what you're looking for?
I don't know who reported it, but it's not true, unless they get the second bout of COVID within a certain amount of time after the first.Getting COVID doesn't leave you with nearly as many antibodies as the vaccine, and the number goes down over time (so does the vaccine, hence the boosters).
My nephew had COVID (fortunately, very mild) and since there was only time for him to get the J&J before college, my brother is hoping that between the two, he should have a pretty robust immune response.
But he sounds like he's talking himself into it.
 

Innula Zenovka

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Come to think of it, I recall reading -- and I think I posted the link in one of the threads here -- about the results of a study in the UK that found, somewhat mysteriously, that a sizeable minority of NHS workers who were being tested daily for COVID and had never shown as being positive, nevertheless somehow developed anti-bodies in their bloodstreams without being vaccinated either.

The most likely explanation, it seemed, was that somehow these people had, in fact, become infected but, remarkably, their bodies' natural defences had managed to detect and overcome the virus before it was ever able to develop to a stage where it caused a positive test result.

They speculated there may have been some genetic element in these peoples' immune response that enabled their bodies to reject the virus so rapidly.
 
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Beebo Brink

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I spoke (colloquial for I exchanged virtual messages) with a co-worker of mine today, for the first time since after the Thanksgiving holidays. He's responsible for a time-sensitive task that I was hoping he had completed for me by this morning. But no, he hadn't even started it yet because he was recovering from his one-shot Covid vaccine, which he had received on Sunday, just under the wire for confirming his vaccination status with our employer.

Soooo, that means that all this time he hasn't been vaccinated. smh. I didn't probe as to why he waited this long, but my best guess would be he's a typical anti-social, reclusive, 30-something computer nerd who just hadn't gotten around to it. I'm just relieved that he's finally gotten his jab, and thankful my company is now making it mandatory. That should sweep up all the other laggards that aren't anti-vaxxer, or that aren't willing to give up a lucrative job to stand on principle. Not to mention, it appears that most of our competitors have already issued mandatory vaccine requirements, so anyone who quits to avoid vaccination is effectively ditching their employment in the entire industry.
 

danielravennest

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How is that determined? I mean, if it's not people with prior infection by other specific and quite unusual coronaviruses, how can you make a comparison between the two groups (primed and not primed), and how do you know what you're looking for?
You can tell if someone has had COVID-19 if they have antibodies to it in their blood. You can also tell if someone has had other coronaviruses if they have antibodies specific to the other viruses. Then you compare the outcomes for enough people that had only one or both viruses.
 

Innula Zenovka

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You can tell if someone has had COVID-19 if they have antibodies to it in their blood. You can also tell if someone has had other coronaviruses if they have antibodies specific to the other viruses. Then you compare the outcomes for enough people that had only one or both viruses.
Yes, but my point is that there are a vast number of coronaviruses -- that is, members of the family Orthocoronavirinae -- and all of us must have, at various times in our lives, encountered, and developed immunity against, literally thousands of different ones, depending on our age and where we have lived and visited.

You said,
That's why it has been reported that people with prior infection by other coronaviruses (which includes the common cold) do better against COVID if they get it - their system has already been primed to react to similar infections.
Since just about everyone in the world must have suffered from multiple colds from childhood onwards, that doesn't seem to me likely to tell us much about immunity from COVID, since almost everyone will have developed whatever immunity this gives, so that's simply helped establish the general base immunity.

How, though, do you determine which of the (say) 1000-odd somewhat less common Orthocoronavirinae that against which A has developed immunity, and B has not, gives A some immunity against Covid-19 which B lacks?

And how, without also doing a complete genetic analysis of A and B, do you determine the role played by genetics in developing any particular immunity in response to an infection by a similar virus, which I know British scientists are looking at?

You've got so many different variables to compare, to my mind, that, unless you've first developed an hypothesis that prior infection to virus XYZ helps develop immunity against COVID, so unless you know what to look for when examining the samples taken from immune and non-immune subjects, you''re never going to find what you're looking for -- you can't simply ask "what's the difference between A's and B's medical history?" because they're going to be too different to make any useful comparisons without more information.
 
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Romana

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Evernote link
Italy has reported a significant rise in the number of bookings for first-time jabs since announcing plans for the “super green pass”, which takes effect nationally from 6 December and requires people to prove they are vaccinated or have recovered from Covid-19 to access cinemas, theatres, gyms, nightclubs, ski-lifts and stadiums, as well as to be served indoors at bars and restaurants.
I'm glad I don't live in Italy, then.
As Innula mentioned in another post, just because someone recovered from COVID strain A, doesn't mean they couldn't catch types B through whatever, and pass them on,
Just like the coronaviruses which comprise the common cold.
I wish having COVID and recovering conferred lasting immunity. Then I wouldn't have to worry about my nephew.
But it isn't so. 😢
 

Khamon

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This story aired on NPR yesterday. The uptake is that vaccine mandates help because, psychologically, they require a conscious decision to not be vaccinated thus making it my fault if I'm infected rather than allowing me to believe that it just happened to me. Vaccination does provide protection but people will lean to not doing anything because, in their mind, negative consequences are not their responsibility.

Human beings are not always good at assessing risk and making rational decisions.

One reason for this hesitancy has to do with omission bias — deciding to do not do something even though that comes with as much or even more risk than deciding to act comes with.
 

Romana

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This story aired on NPR yesterday. The uptake is that vaccine mandates help because, psychologically, they require a conscious decision to not be vaccinated thus making it my fault if I'm infected rather than allowing me to believe that it just happened to me. Vaccination does provide protection but people will lean to not doing anything because, in their mind, negative consequences are not their responsibility.
That's for rational people. For the Qrazies and their ilk, it will always be someone else's fault. The someone varies, depending on the conspiracy du jour,
but if they view COVID as a bioweapon (iirc several congress critters gave said exactly that), how could it not be someone else's fault?
 

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That's for rational people. For the Qrazies and their ilk, it will always be someone else's fault.
Good point, but then the argument is do you set policy by how the conspiracy theorists and alt-brain crowd will react?
 

Innula Zenovka

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Because, it would seem,

Instead of a universal provider akin to the United Kingdom’s National Health Service or Canada’s single-payer system, America’s healthcare regime remains a predatory patchwork.

Private insurance is expensive and inefficient. Comprehensive public insurance is open only to those who are very poor, old, or work for the government. The ailing American healthcare system has been on full display during the pandemic, with those who survive hospital stays sometimes returning home with enormous medical bills. Other Americans, fearing costs, avoid medical visits altogether.
 

Khamon

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One of our eighty-three-year-old friends has tested positive for Covid and is on her way to the hospital to see if she's a viable antibody plasma candidate. We don't know which variant she has. At this point it's an unconfirmed positive. But she has been poorly these past few days. She's convinced that the booster shot infected her with Covid.