Brexit.

[Essence Lumin]

Wasn't there supposed to be some more or less absolute deadline of today or something where it wouldn't be possible to get everything signed to avoid a hard brexit? They can't wait till 11 pm on the 31st to sign something right?

 

[Sid]

Wasn't there supposed to be some more or less absolute deadline of today or something where it wouldn't be possible to get everything signed to avoid a hard brexit? They can't wait till 11 pm on the 31st to sign something right?

Yes, but of course it is more or less.
If both sides agree to extend the talks because they are almost there, there are always possibilities to stretch things a bit or a lot.

 

[Sid]

But today may be the breaking point as well:

 

[Sid]

 

[Arkady Arkright]

Wasn't there supposed to be some more or less absolute deadline of today or something where it wouldn't be possible to get everything signed to avoid a hard brexit? They can't wait till 11 pm on the 31st to sign something right?

“I love deadlines. I love the whooshing noise they make as they go by.”

― Douglas Adams, The Salmon of Doubt

 

[Innula Zenovka]

 

[Sid]

I just read that Gove is on his way to Brussels to try to work something out for the Irish border.
That is not a good sign for a deal, is it?

Checks on goods crossing Irish Sea to start from 1 January

Government confirms no delay, despite demands from businesses and farmers in Northern Ireland

www.theguardian.com

 

[Innula Zenovka]

I just read that Gove is on his way to Brussels to try to work something out for the Irish border.
That is not a good sign for a deal, is it?

Checks on goods crossing Irish Sea to start from 1 January

Government confirms no delay, despite demands from businesses and farmers in Northern Ireland

www.theguardian.com

I really don't know. We'll find out soon enough, though.

 

[Chin Rey]

In an interview with Sky News yesterday George Eustice said about the Ireland Protocol:
"Given that it affects Northern Ireland which is, you know, part of the UK, the UK government will have to legislate to provide the legal clarity and the legal certainty about how that agreement should be interpreted. Only the UK government can do that."
Those are fighting words of course and they also sum up the Brexit idea so well:
"This decision affects me so I and only I can decide. It doesn't matter if it affects you too because I am more important than anybody else." It's entitlement on an epic scale and the fact that the British government still clings on to that lunacy is rather worrying.

 

[Beebo Brink]

It's been such a long journey that I've forgotten the finer details of Brexit. What was the bridge from a "non-binding referendum" to actually proceeding with Brexit?

 

[Sid]

A British idiocracy virus mainly spread by some populists, that infected many and a strong nostalgia about the British Empire when Britannia still ruled the waves. A pinch to of megalomania mostly among the Tories is also included.

 

[Sid]

'Boris Johnson's lustre has faded': European media dissect painful Brexit talks

PM dug into a corner by refusing to compromise on sovereignty but EU reached ‘pain threshhold’

www.theguardian.com

 

[Sid]

The pressure cooking for results Johnson was seeking, seems to start (only on the wrong side for him so far):

 

[Innula Zenovka]

The pressure cooking for results Johnson was seeking, seems to start (only on the wrong side for him so far):

If those are the clauses that allow HMG to break international law, it's simply theatre, since the House of Lords have already demonstrated they won't allow the bill to pass with those clauses.

That's a hard "No," with even very senior anti-EU Tories in the Lords, like Michael Howard, opposing the government. They rejected them by 433 to 165; and 407 to 148 last month, and nothing has happened since to change their minds.

Those clauses have no chance of becoming law -- their lordships can delay the whole bill for a year, if necessary.

 

[Sid]

Why do Sky and The Guardian and others bring it as breaking news then?
The British press getting nervous too?
I am.

 

[Innula Zenovka]

Why do Sky and The Guardian and others bring it as breaking news then?
The British press getting nervous too?
I am.

Well, it's an important gesture of good faith that they'll drop the nonsense, I guess, but it has to be understood against the background that it wasn't going to happen, whatever HMG had to say about it -- the bill has to pass both houses and the Lords made it very clear that it stands no chance if those clauses are part of it.

It's like Trump conceding -- it doesn't really matter when he does or not, but it would make everyone a lot happier if he did.

 

[Beebo Brink]

It's been such a long journey that I've forgotten the finer details of Brexit. What was the bridge from a "non-binding referendum" to actually proceeding with Brexit?

A British idiocracy virus mainly spread by some populists, that infected many and a strong nostalgia about the British Empire when Britannia still ruled the waves. A pinch to of megalomania mostly among the Tories is also included.

I understand the emotions involved, what I meant was how did the non-binding resolution lead to an actual withdrawal? Who in the government made the decision to treat this as a binding resolution and move forward?

 

[Govi]

'Boris Johnson's lustre has faded': European media dissect painful Brexit talks

PM dug into a corner by refusing to compromise on sovereignty but EU reached ‘pain threshhold’

www.theguardian.com

Johnson's "lustre" has seemed to be the lustre of "genuine imitation brass."

 

[Innula Zenovka]

I understand the emotions involved, what I meant was how did the non-binding resolution lead to an actual withdrawal? Who in the government made the decision to treat this as a binding resolution and move forward?

Both sides, before the 2015 referendum, said they'd abide by the result, and the Conservatives promised, in the 2019 election, that they would request no more extensions of our EU membership if they won, which they did by a large majority.

So, blame David Cameron, Theresa May, Boris Johnson and anyone who voted Conservative in the last two elections.

 

[Argent Stonecutter]

I understand the emotions involved, what I meant was how did the non-binding resolution lead to an actual withdrawal? Who in the government made the decision to treat this as a binding resolution and move forward?

I think it was a promise Cameron made that the Tories would honor the referendum no matter how stupid an idea it was, how close it was, and whether it was supposed to be binding or not.