2020 Democratic Primary

[Cristiano]

Joe Biden: Michigan, put your faith in Team Joe

"As president, I will not stand by and allow Michigan to slip backwards," Biden writes.

www.detroitnews.com

 

[Aeon Jiminy]

And you sound disturbingly like another once-banned, but returned, poster with a claimed similar background. You've tried to psychoanalyze me once before, when you claimed that I sound just like an adult child of an alcoholic. I caution you to not think yourself worthy of another attempt. Anything else?

You've jumped the tracks. This is my one and only venture into this forum. All of this talk of personal alliances, hidden intentions, and invasive prosecuting of
Cristalle. She promised her vote. I just don't understand why you seem to need her mind too.

 

[Salome]

Convincing stuff. Totally disproves everything.

Especially when they’re still pretending like it’s all anonymous followers and willfully ignoring the official campaign members and surrogates who regularly engage in toxic nonsense.

 

[Innula Zenovka]

Sanders specifically chose and rewarded scorched earth voices for his 2020 campaign staff. People who loudly and boldly advocated voting 3rd party in 2016 and bragged about it when they did. Sanders can mumble all he wants about supporting whoever wins, but the message he sends with who he chooses to surround himself with, who he chooses to court, and who he chooses to blow off speaks far louder. When progressives like Warren explain why it’s wrong (morally and financially) to go on FOX, Sanders still does. Then he tweets lies about how he’s winning over republicans and the responses are full of a bunch of his followers being recruited to watch FOX because it’s “more fair.”

I'm deliberately trying to be as fair as possible in my assessment of Saunders because the Democratic Party nomination isn't my fight and there's so much I don't know about him and his campaign.

However, the more I learn about Sanders the man and some of his close aides, the more my initial misgivings about him and his campaign seem to be justified.

 

[Salome]

However, the more I learn about Sanders the man and some of his close aides, the more my initial misgivings about him and his campaign seem to be justified.

I voted for him, supported him, and defended him in 2016. I’ve since had to face the reality that he is a nasty, opportunistic narcissist who thinks the ends justify the means and his ends are the only right ones. I wouldn’t trust him with my phone number. Even now, he’s on FOX winking at the insidious lie that Russia floated about Biden’s mental state that both the Bernie left and the Trump right are hitting on hard.

 

[Dakota Tebaldi]

Convincing stuff. Totally disproves everything.

lol:

"There is one key difference that Twitter users and media don't seem to be aware of.... Bernie has a lot more Twitter followers than Twitter followers of other Democrat's campaigns," he added, noting that this may be partly what helps perpetuate the myth.

Oh is that all. Particularly toxic Sanders fans aren't more particularly toxic than other candidates'; there's just a whole hell of a lot more of them, which is a completely different thing! Checkmate, atheists.

 

[Salome]

Previously I made a point about how I think Biden understands he’s just a placeholder candidate and a major role of his administration, in addition to fixing this mess and pushing for our policies, is to help lift up the next incoming wave of leadership.

 

[Brenda Archer]

This is sounding disturbingly Authoritarian.

You don’t know what authoritarianism is.

You have it confused with “Mommy can’t tell me what to do.”

I remember being at this point with you before. Mommy is not going to be in the voting booth with you.

But, if you are willing to vote for a party that’s willing to kill children in cages and grandmothers with pneumonia, you are yourself authoritarian.

Or you’re profoundly incapable of understanding any kind of Left theory or praxis, and not interested in trying.

You’re a Trump voter.

 

[Jolene Benoir]

You've jumped the tracks. This is my one and only venture into this forum. All of this talk of personal alliances, hidden intentions, and invasive prosecuting of
Cristalle. She promised her vote. I just don't understand why you seem to need her mind too.

Look, wormtongue this is a continuation of her posting to him that they are "on the same side". I sought to understand how and why that could be, given that someone who would vote for Trump clearly doesn't have much, if any, actual shared belief in the stated goals of either the democratic party or Bernie Sanders.

I now have the answer. As long as he, and those like him, are willing to vote for Sanders, then I guess shared values, in particular those that would normally be quite a part of one's basic outlook upon life, in matters of great import such as equality, don't particularly amount to much. That seems quite foreign to me, yet I guess some Bernie supporters are willing to accept that, perhaps even Bernie himself as long as it means votes.

As has been expressed by others, that makes me wonder what role those who are more interested in the cult or populism than actual belief would be given in a Bernie administration.

 

[Dakota Tebaldi]

It's not convincing to you because you spend a hell of a lot more time on the internet than he does. I really don't know what you expect.

I would expect him to hear the level of complaining and have one of his campaign staffers or (better yet) some other neutral party that does spend a lot of time on the internet, and who isn't willing to blow it all off as "fake news!", to explain to him what it's all about in some depth - so that instead of a canned, nonspecific "I hope people be nice out there" that rings hollow he can make a relevant, specific rebuttal to these behaviors that proves he actually cares enough about the issue to even find out wth he's apologizing for before giving said apology.

Now strictly speaking, this doesn't require him to start going online himself at all, or cut down his TV campaigning, or anything like that. He can have someone do the research and simply give him a report. Although, for the love of god, considering it's pretty much agreed across the board that Sanders' online popularity is largely responsible for how good of a showing he's been putting up, I should hope he might want to show a little interest in the medium...

But that aside, it's simple math, to me. Sanders needs votes. The rabid wing of his online supporters should realize that this is the only thing that actually matters. If a sizeable number of your guy's potential voters are complaining about his online representation - I mean you can either just call them all stupid snowflakes and try to guilt-trip them into putting up with the abuse by declaring that if they don't Take It Like A Man and vote for your guy even while you treat them like dirt then they must be poor-hating secretly-conservatives who "never really cared" about issues some of them have literally dedicated their lives to advancing, or you can do something that might actually convince them to WANT to come over to your side.

I'll tell you one thing - just as an example: I'm quite poor. And I very much do care about how poor people (like me) will pay our medical bills. And as long as I know those things are true about myself, then when somebody tells me that I have to support his guy because if I don't that officially means I "don't really care about" those things that I know for a fact that I do care about - see, as far as I'm concerned, that person has just proven that he doesn't know what the hell he's talking about which kills his credibility with me, period. I think that's how most people react to the same kind of rhetorical bullying, and I'm betting that is how so many people get turned off of Sanders.

 

[Aeon Jiminy]

You don’t know what authoritarianism is.

You have it confused with “Mommy can’t tell me what to do.”

I remember being at this point with you before. Mommy is not going to be in the voting booth with you.

But, if you are willing to vote for a party that’s willing to kill children in cages and grandmothers with pneumonia, you are yourself authoritarian.

Or you’re profoundly incapable of understanding any kind of Left theory or praxis, and not interested in trying.

You’re a Trump voter.

I have family and friends that have supported Trump. I just don't see this as black and white.

I like you, I do. I get the feeling you're a sensitive and kind person. When we vote Democratic, we vote for murder for resource.
We vote for horrible violations of civil liberties. We vote for genocide. We vote for undemocratic elections. We vote for wealth inequality. We vote for fracking. We vote for a party that builds cages for people. We vote for a party that pays bankers to make people homeless. There is a lot of bad things that come with our good intentions.

I'm not a Trump voter, never have been, but I do allow people to find things or have experiences that are beyond my understanding. We are supposed to be the Pro-Choice Party. That shouldn't begin and end around reproduction. People always aren't about the worst parts of their choices.

 

[Kamilah Hauptmann]

 

[Salome]

So, the Sunrise Movement protested Biden again tonight and knocked Symone Sanders to the ground while she was trying to reason with them.


ETA: It unclear if this was an official act by the Sunrise Movement or if just a few of the protesters were identifying themselves that way. According to another reporter some are identifying themselves much less officially:

 

[Brenda Archer]

I have family and friends that have supported Trump. I just don't see this as black and white.

I like you, I do. I get the feeling you're a sensitive and kind person. When we vote Democratic, we vote for murder for resource.
We vote for horrible violations of civil liberties. We vote for genocide. We vote for undemocratic elections. We vote for wealth inequality. We vote for fracking. We vote for a party that builds cages for people. We vote for a party that pays bankers to make people homeless. There is a lot of bad things that come with our good intentions.

I'm not a Trump voter, never have been, but I do allow people to find things or have experiences that are beyond my understanding. We are supposed to be the Pro-Choice Party. That shouldn't begin and end around reproduction. People always aren't about the worst parts of their choices.

You need to grow up.

This world is not perfectible. People are trying to raise the next generation in the world we’ve got, and save what we can of it for generations to come.

Nobody is forcing you to believe in the “social contract,” but it’s plain that Sanders does, and that you do not share his politics.

You’re a Trump voter. The politics on offer has to be perfectly pleasing to you, or you feel free to reject it (out of privilege), yet you’re willing to vote for the Christofascist puppet.

I don’t know why you’re not willing to own your true politics, but whatever.

When I lived in VT/NH we practiced *participatory democracy.* It is a lot of work and it has always been communitarian, ever since the Puritans. These are the home voters who keep re-electing Sanders, who embodies his own communitarian religion.

You don’t understand. Go back to Trump where you belong.

 

[Kamilah Hauptmann]

Here's hoping Uncle Joe's dealt with his hair sniffing issue. He don't need more of that press.

 

[Clara D.]

Ok, so what is Trump’s credible plan that makes him better than Biden?

Lol, you used Trump and credible together.

 

[Katheryne Helendale]

I disagree with you, though, because I just don't think Biden can win over Trump voters. He triggers irrational anti-Obama rage in them. MAGA hat wearers voting for him would be as unlikely as Bernie supporters voting for Bloomberg.

I don't think the idea is to try to win Trump voters. They are lost. There is no possible way to "win" them in any way that doesn't jeopardize the future of the Democratic Party and the country in general. The idea is to try to capture as many of the fence-sitters as we can, and that's not going to happen if we scare them off with a hard yank to the left. We need to heal, and that healing will be a slow process. I wanted Warren, but with her out of the race, I think Biden is the best between him and Sanders for bringing that slow, steady healing.

 

[Kamilah Hauptmann]

I don't think the idea is to try to win Trump voters. They are lost. There is no possible way to "win" them in any way that doesn't jeopardize the future of the Democratic Party and the country in general. The idea is to try to capture as many of the fence-sitters as we can, and that's not going to happen if we scare them off with a hard yank to the left. We need to heal, and that healing will be a slow process. I wanted Warren, but with her out of the race, I think Biden is the best between him and Sanders for bringing that slow, steady healing.

By now you're staring in horror at the next page.

 

[Katheryne Helendale]

Speak for yourself. I don't scare so easy. I'll vote Trump over Biden any day.

The very fact you would even so much as entertain the idea of voting for Trump after the shit he has done over the past 3+ years tells me everything I need to know about you.

 

[Kamilah Hauptmann]

The very fact you would even so much as entertain the idea of voting for Trump after the shit he has done over the past 3+ years tells me everything I need to know about you.

Wait until you get to the next part.