2020 Democratic Primary

[Cristalle]

Coincidentally, some 25 or 30 years I used to teach couple of courses in SQL and relational databases as part of a course for former miners in my native Nottinghamshire who were retraining after the deep-cast pits closed up there, and had chosen that particular option as part of a government-funded retraining programme at what, in the US, would be called a community college.

Three of them, at least, eventually went on to get professional certification with either MS SQL server or MySQL.

3 out of how many, and were they over 50?

 

[Cristalle]

'All You Need to Know': Biden Reportedly Weighing Billionaires Michael Bloomberg and Jamie Dimon for Cabinet Posts | Common Dreams

"The establishment wing of the party didn't fall into line behind Biden despite the fact that he'd put Bloomberg and Jamie Dimon in his cabinet. They did it because of that. This is who they are."

www.commondreams.org

2009 all over again when the recession can't be saved off any longer.

 

[Eunoli]

LOL.

 

[bubblesort]

3 out of how many, and were they over 50?

I know the political context here is delicate, but maybe be fair to Innula Zenovka. She clearly enjoys teaching, and that's awesome. No need to try to pick apart her accomplishments as an educator. Those of us who love teaching love to brag about our students. I mean, I have my differences with Innula, politically, but you know... credit where credit is due. It's hard work to get successful students who actually do something with what you teach them.

 

[Innula Zenovka]

3 out of how many, and were they over 50?

There were about 12 in the group I taught, of whom one was over 50 (he told me he wasn't looking for work, particularly, since he'd received a generous redundancy package having worked in the industry for so long, and was simply taking courses out of interest).

 

[Jolene Benoir]

When we vote Democratic, we vote for murder for resource.
We vote for horrible violations of civil liberties. We vote for genocide. We vote for undemocratic elections. We vote for wealth inequality. We vote for fracking. We vote for a party that builds cages for people. We vote for a party that pays bankers to make people homeless. There is a lot of bad things that come with our good intentions.

Bernie Sanders is running under that democratic party banner, so I guess you will refrain from voting in this election? Oh, I know...you'll say that he's not actually a democrat, therefore he's not guilty of your laundry list of sins. He, in your mind, is just attempting to overtake that party. Of course, many are right with you in believing that he's not a democrat and that he just uses that banner to make vanity runs at the presidency, but they aren't exactly going to vote for him, either.

Should he win that nomination and the presidency, just who do you believe he would appoint to roles within his administration? Non-democrats across the board? What affiliation would they have, if any?

 

[Jolene Benoir]

Sanders had another Fox town hall yesterday. He reportedly knocked it out of the park, and the audience was supportive. Fox was, once again, more fair than CNN.

Michigan has an open primary, meaning anyone can vote in the Democratic primary.

Seeking Trump voters while continuing to install the belief that the democrats are the true evil. Trump voters surely will want to vote for someone that Trump is about to tell them is a commie coming for their guns, and it sure as hell will help him win votes of people in the actual party that he's running under; the very same people that he excoriates.

Honestly, how would any of us be expected to support such a man?

 

[Innula Zenovka]

I know the political context here is delicate, but maybe be fair to Innula Zenovka. She clearly enjoys teaching, and that's awesome. No need to try to pick apart her accomplishments as an educator. Those of us who love teaching love to brag about our students. I mean, I have my differences with Innula, politically, but you know... credit where credit is due. It's hard work to get successful students who actually do something with what you teach them.

It's a reasonable question.

The way, though, the pit closures worked out here, at least in the Nottinghamshire coalfields, was that the redundant miners got pretty generous redundancy terms, and also no end of grants for retraining and so on (this is the UK, not USA, we're talking about)

Most of the guys in Nottinghamshire who wanted to retrain, and particularly those willing and able to relocate, were able to find work without too much difficulty.

That, however, left the people who were unwilling or unable to relocate (family commitments, for example). Also, the redundancy payments to miners didn't help people who'd been working in local shops and businesses that depended on the mines for their custom.

The problem is, really, now the pits have gone, there's no real reason for a lot of the old mining towns and villages to exist at anything like their previous size -- the whole point of the villages' and towns' existence was an industry that's gone forever, and the jobs, or similar ones, can't be brought back.

It's a complex problem that requires a whole range of different solutions for different areas and for different groups of people in those areas.

But I see absolutely nothing wrong with encouraging redundant miners to retrain, be it as computer coders or as plumbers or gas fitters or electricians or tree surgeons or car mechanics or ballet dancers or whatever they're interested in that they think they can make a decent living from.

It's certainly better for a lot of people than government trying persuade Amazon and similar employers to open fulfillment and logistics centres in the old mining areas, which seems to be the main alternative at the moment.

Coal mining is, quite simply, a sunset industry, and that applies to the US as much as to anywhere else. No one can change that, any more than they can bring back commercial whaling as a major industry in Nantucket.

Retraining, and helping people to relocate, has to be a large part of the solution.

 

[bubblesort]

... Retraining, and helping people to relocate, has to be a large part of the solution.

Agreed. Rhetorically, you have to phrase it correctly to avoid a lot of angry blue collar types. Instead of saying, "learn to code," you probably want to advocate for social programs, which is an area the government needs to improve on. Telling miners to learn to code comes across as a criticism of them, and their work, and as you probably already know, miners don't like their work ethic being challenged. Calling them lazy is like an insult to their ancestors or something.

This isn't just in mining, though. Lots of blue collar types are told to learn to code when they are laid off, and it always comes across as callous. Journalists used to not understand this, but now they do, because of a twitter storm that happened about a year ago. A bunch of Huffington Post publications had massive layoffs, so the blue collar workers and their friends started tweeting "learn to code" at the laid off journalists, who were the same people telling them to learn to code a few months prior. Twitter eventually decided that telling journalists to learn to code is some kind of hate speech, and tried to shut it down, which started a Streisand effect. Ever since then, I've seen a lot less people saying "learn to code" outside of flame wars. I think "learn to code" is now usually used as a way to tell unemployed journalists to fuck off, instead of something you say to a laid off miner.

 

[Jolene Benoir]

I think the reason I keep peeking back into this thread is to remind myself that conspiracy nutters and propaganda actors have a much more willing audience than I generally like to believe.

Yes, and if anything the efficacy of it has grown by volumes since 2016. Perhaps, pointing at Trump supporters and noticing that they are/were willing to believe any lie coming out of his mouth was premature when there are clearly so many that are nominally liberal are just as equally willing to swallow equally outlandish premises.

And, wow...your method works a treat in clearing out the nonsense.

 

[Pamela]

Voting in person is not going to be an option. Any states without absentee voting need to get it fast. And what are the chances the Trumpists are going to permit that?

 

[Cristalle]

3 out of how many, and were they over 50?

Why are you people cringing? I asked the question because there are issues with the efficacy of retraining, and the data shows that we training people is not as easy especially when it comes to older crowds. Yes, we should be trying to retrain people, but there is a number of issues around retraining when it comes to older people. Can we just face the facts?

 

[Brenda Archer]

LOL, yeah, I know. Should be pretty easy for them to have a simple conversation about politics, but here we are... seems like a lot of them seem to hurl insults instead of facts. Biden supporters are truly toxic people.

If you think my arguments are so convincing, then why don't you vote for Trump?

How many times do I have to call it Christofascist bullshit before you get the point ?

You’re the one threatening to vote for Trump. This makes you a Trump voter. Why are you trying to pretend you are not ?

 

[Anya Ristow]

A Trump-voting co-worker was amused over this incident.

Biden snaps at Michigan auto worker over guns, curses at him

ETA: Also in Michigan, Biden accuses NAFTA protesters first of being Trump supporters, then of being Bernie Bros. It wasn't caught on camera, but from Biden's response ("let them go, this isn't a Trump rally") the crowd apparently grabbed the protesters.

Joe Biden Urges Crowd to Let 'Bernie Bro' Protesters Go After Michigan Rally Interruption: 'This Isn't a Trump Rally'

 

[Cristalle]

 

[Eunoli]

Wasn't this thread started to get away from the all-Bernie praise all the time and the rest of you are heretics thread?

Since we can't speak to each other and are constantly just speaking past each other - it might do less damage to split this to two threads - one all Bernie and one addressing other things.

 

[Brenda Archer]

I truly don't understand how you can label me a Trump voter when I have never voted for Trump in my life? I've never even voted Republican. You call me "privileged" which is a laugh and a half on the whole story of my life. Have you ever read " The Lottery" by Shirley Jackson? Are those who are not willing to blindly follow the community... privileged? Put away your label machine. All of this categorization is not bringing you to some universal truth.

You were willing to threaten to vote for Trump, so I took you at face value. You’re not worth the effort to second guess after that.

 

[Aribeth Zelin]

I'm sure this thread would make more sense if I took people off ignore, but its a good constant reminder that whomever it is, I'm glad they're there.

 

[Ryanna Enfield]

Gun-Humper deserved a slap to the face. Sorry about his tiny penis. No one is coming for his guns. We can't even take guns away from domestic abusers.

 

[Clara D.]

TRUMP SHOULD FATHER MY CHILDREN CAUSE HE AM THAT GREAT

Okay, then.