2020 Democratic Primary

Salome

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Which described my choice now pretty well, too. Despite all his (many many) faults, Biden is the known quantity who is a solid Dem and team player. And when it comes to governance, "team player" is NOT a dirty word. He belongs to the group he is leading rather than being a hostile takeover.
The only person I know who is at all enthusiastic about Biden is my mother and from what I can understand that’s based on her perception of his empathy, his relationship with Obama, and her belief that he has the existing relationships to immediately get to work and begin repairing our institutions. I cannot fault her, but I also cannot stop wishing it was any of my other choices instead.
 
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Elizabeth Warren quit the campaign.
 

Beebo Brink

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The only person I know who is at all enthusiastic about Biden is my mother....
We don't talk about politics at my office very often, but I'd say most of the guys are either Republican or Independent. They're all really nice, sweet guys, devoted family men, not a jerk in the batch of them, which is my touchstone for remembering that the worst of the GOP is not universal. It's hard to reconcile sometimes, but there they are and I can't cast them as villains. Fortunately for my peace of mind, however, NONE of them are pro-Trump, not a one.

They're also not politically junkies, like me. They catch the headlines, they know generally what's going on, but the minutiae of policy that we hash out here on VVO would fly right over their heads. They see their choices in much broader terms. Out of curiosity I prodded one the associate directors (who I've known for 20 years now) to tell me about his vote. He's an independent, so he switches back and forth between party candidates depending on who is running. He was ready to vote for McCain until Sarah Palin was added to the ticket; he could have voted for Romney (but didn't); he would be delighted if we could get Obama back in office.

On SuperTuesday he voted for Biden, said he thought Sanders was too extreme. He wasn't alarmed, just thoughtful about who he was comfortable voting for, but he wasn't going to stress about any of it because he has a wife, five kids, a mortgage and a demanding job. He's upbeat, energetic and although he always votes, politics just isn't at the forefront of his life very often. And I'd guess he's pretty typical around here.

For what it's worth, from what I see around me, a lot of neverTrump Republicans are comfortable voting for Biden. And I'll take any good news I can get.
 

Anya Ristow

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Salome, I would sent your post to Bernie if I had the connections :) Not because I agree with it, and in fact I'm going to disagree with as much of it as I have time for right now, but because I see where you are coming from and I'd really like to be reassured that Sanders does, too. I'd like him to knock off the establishment talk, or at least limit it to the objects of his ire. I believe he genuinely does not believe every member or contributor to the party is part of the problem, but he may be too tone deaf to recognize that that's how he is received, by some, probably many, people.

When he talks of "the establishment", I believe he is too absorbed in top-down thinking. Me, too. People at congressional and senate level, party leadership, and I mean the very top, mainstream news organizations. And not even all of them, or the people in them. He's talking about people taking money from industry and PACs, or representing industry or PACs. He has a cynical (and I'd say realistic) view of how well a representative, or a media pundit, can represent or even understand what the people want when they are incentivized to do otherwise. I encourage you to look up "corruption is legal in america" on youtube and think very seriously about that stupid graph and what it means.

I'm going to give you just two examples of how Sanders and his supporters experience the Democratic party, in lieu of quoting some piece of your post and responding to it. Because I'm in a big damned hurry...

Obviously Sanders had problems with DWS. Her replacement? Also problematic. Not really his business, but recognize the circumstance. Both the party establishment and Bernie's supporters kinda both supported Keith Ellison as party chair. He could have been a non-contentious choice. But that wasn't good enough for Obama. He asked Perez to run, and since he was Obama's choice, of course he won. It was an unnecessary stick in the eye of Bernie's supporters.

"They're not Democrats"

After 2016 there were two competing movements among Sanders supporters. Demexit: abandon the Democratic party and help it die, and Dementer: join the Democratic party and participate to make it more progressive. The latter won, I think. I joined my state party. In California the effort was so successful that they thought they would have the numbers (and support from lots of party insiders and elected officials) to elect a progressive black woman as state party chair. But they learned that there are superdelegates at the state level, too, and a voting mechanism that can be hidden when it is convenient. So, a pharmaceutical lobbyist won that chair. How's that for a stick in the eye? California was making moves toward M4AllOfCalifornia. With the party chair a pharma "consultant" and lobbyist, and Pelosi reassuring the industry that nothing will come of M4A, Dementer fell out of favor in California. No clue if it's even still a thing.

More to come if I have time.

So, I’ll try to illustrate this without sounding snarky, but I want to highlight this because it’s important. One of the key reasons Bernie divides Dems — especially older POC and women — is because those are the core support base of the Dem party who do the bulk (not all, but the bulk) of the work that moves progressive policy and ideas forward in the Dem party.
 
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Pamela

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Why Biden?

Because Jim Clyburn said so and he has the moral authority and political capital to crown him. As soon as the words were out of his mouth, the whole election flipped.
 

Pamela

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.

For what it's worth, from what I see around me, a lot of neverTrump Republicans are comfortable voting for Biden. And I'll take any good news I can get.
This is what I saw from Never Trumpers in my Twitter feed. They had been so distraught over the prospect of Bernie, because they believed he could never beat Trump, but SO relieved at the prospect of Biden.
 
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Salome

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And this is exactly the kind of knee-jerk temptation to demonize that I have to fight against myself. Thank you for reminding me to try even harder.
I could be wrong, but I don’t think it was a Trump thing? It’s just that phrase is used in a lot of true crime stuff regarding family annihilator killers.
 
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Pamela

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Kamilah Hauptmann

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I could be wrong, but I don’t think it was a Trump thing? It’s just that phrase is used in a lot of true crime stuff regarding family annihilator killers.
That was from last summer, a father and daughter in the Rio Grande. I intended it as a reminder of the stakes. (shout out to Cris adding a spoiler) Regardless of the party in power there's going to be a contentious relationship with Latin America, particularly Mexico. I just hope for less of those without an unholy alliance between McConnell and Trump.
 

Salome

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That was from last summer, a father and daughter in the Rio Grande. I intended it as a reminder of the stakes. (shout out to Cris adding a spoiler) Regardless of the party in power there's going to be a contentious relationship with Latin America, particularly Mexico. I just hope for less of those without an unholy alliance between McConnell and Trump.
Ahhh. I misunderstood. And...yeah.
 

Beebo Brink

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That was from last summer, a father and daughter in the Rio Grande. I intended it as a reminder of the stakes. (shout out to Cris adding a spoiler) Regardless of the party in power there's going to be a contentious relationship with Latin America, particularly Mexico. I just hope for less of those without an unholy alliance between McConnell and Trump.
Thank you for the clarification. Your meaning was REALLY opaque. I took it as a dig at people who are Republicans and my calling them good people.
 

Salome

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Bronx’s dad has been sharing the latest polling. It’s looking like FL is going to be a huge sweep for Biden. That’s not surprising, but it’s also looking like Sanders‘ numbers are going soft in Michigan. He‘s cancelled his trip to Mississippi to focus on Michigan, so I’m assuming his internals are saying the same thing.

No one expected Sanders to do well in FL, but if he loses big in Michigan, it’s hard to see him having any justification not to fuck off already.
 

Innula Zenovka

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After 2016 there were two competing movements among Sanders supporters. Demexit: abandon the Democratic party and help it die, and Dementer: join the Democratic party and participate to make it more progressive. The latter won, I think. I joined my state party. In California the effort was so successful that they thought they would have the numbers (and support from lots of party insiders and elected officials) to elect a progressive black woman as state party chair. But they learned that there are superdelegates at the state level, too, and a voting mechanism that can be hidden when it is convenient. So, a pharmaceutical lobbyist won that chair. How's that for a stick in the eye? California was making moves toward M4AllOfCalifornia. With the party chair a pharma "consultant" and lobbyist, and Pelosi reassuring the industry that nothing will come of M4A, Dementer fell out of favor in California. No clue if it's even still a thing.
I may have missed something, but I can't find any reference to superdelegates in the article to which you link.

That says,
California Democrat Kimberly Ellis, who rode a wave of Bernie Sanders-inspired support to come within 62 votes of veteran political operative Eric Bauman in the state party’s recent race for chair, issued a memo late Monday questioning the legitimacy of the election and the review process that followed.

“Based on the information contained here,” the document states, “the actual vote count is in question. It is believed that the wrong individual is serving as chair.”

Ellis’ team alleges hundreds of ballots have corresponding signatures that don’t match the credential sign-in signatures, or are missing, and said it found “multiple documented instances” of duplicate voting – described as a person voting as a proxy, or someone who casts a vote on behalf of another, on more than one ballot.


They further charge that several individuals who served as proxies were not listed in a commonly used political database as registered Democrats.

Not a word about superdelegates, at least not that I can see.

I also note the dateline on the article is June 2017 -- so that means, if I've understood the chronology correctly, you and lots of other supporters of Bernie Sanders joined the California Democratic Party at some point in 2015 or 2016 and were so successful in your campaigning that, within a year or so at most, you came within a hair's breadth of seeing your candidate elected as state Chair, despite what she said were irregularities in the voting procedure.

But when your candidate wasn't elected -- whether because of irregularities or not -- rather than sticking around to build on this remarkable achievement, which to my mind should have given you every reason to hope you'd see your candidates elected next time, after you'd had more time to organise and network and bring new members into the party, many Bernie supporters simply gave up.

Unless I misunderstand something, you're saying that rather than build on their remarkable achievements over so short a time, a lot of Sanders supporters simply gave up and walked away after almost taking over one of the largest and most important state Democratic parties in the country after only a year or so's trying.

Is that how it happened, or have I misunderstood? Because it doesn't sound like the behaviour of people who are seriously interested in political power.
 

Anya Ristow

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Not a word about superdelegates, at least not that I can see.
Sorry, that's not literal :) They handed out delegate badges to anyone who would stand in for actual delegates, if an establishment delegate was not present, but did not extend this flexibility to Sanders delegates.

Also, I'm not in California, so I do not know the current state of this effort. It's likely it continued after the party chair election, but they stopped talking about it. I have no idea if they are still involved. ETA I do remember talk of continued problems with the California party but I don't remember the details. ETA2 Oh, yeah, this. Kimberly Ellis ran again. And it does sound like electeds and party officials get more votes. Essentially, superdelegates. I think it works that way in my state, too, but I just vote for shit and have no clue how the tabulating is done.
 
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Kamilah Hauptmann

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Thank you for the clarification. Your meaning was REALLY opaque. I took it as a dig at people who are Republicans and my calling them good people.
My apology for the bolded; not my intent at all.

For the good but busy family men I can but manage a polite but fake smile. For the repentant Trump voter (my entire family branch in Wisconsin) I have a snerk and a “Welcome back”, followed by a beer and animated debate over a pool table. Beyond that point on down to the hard core Trumper I can’t even fake manners anymore. Best I can manage is walking away. Too many (additional) dead bodies.
 

Innula Zenovka

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Sorry, that's not literal :) They handed out delegate badges to anyone who would stand in for actual delegates, if an establishment delegate was not present, but did not extend this flexibility to Sanders delegates.

Also, I'm not in California, so I do not know the current state of this effort. It's likely it continued after the party chair election, but they stopped talking about it. I have no idea if they are still involved. ETA I do remember talk of continued problems with the California party but I don't remember the details.
Thanks, but you did say that, as a result of this setback, "Dementer fell out of favor in California. No clue if it's even still a thing."

That boggles my mind -- almost winning so crucial an election, after so short a time, and despite what are said to have been sharp practices by the other side, and then giving up in disgust rather than building on such a remarkable achievement which would give anyone every reason to hope for success the next time.

That's not how serious people behave.
 
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