2020 Democratic Primary

[Beebo Brink]

Sanders and Warren split the progressive vote.

From the numbers I'm seeing, Warren is not getting enough of the votes to hurt Sanders that much.

 

[Isabeau]

I would love it if people “meddled” with their opinions about Canadian politics, but quite frankly, I don’t believe many (most) know much beyond headlines and Trudeau’s socks and beard. And apart from the Uk, there isn’t much knowledge or interest for other countries, except of course, for big events. Yes, people can be prickly in their manner, but they also know a lot about American politics. Whoever is at the helm in the US directly affects us - our economy, foreign affairs, laws, etc. We don’t always have a choice to know about US politics.

I find that yes, it is polite to refrain from having opinions on another country’s politics when one knows only the bare minimum, but otherwise, I’m not sure why it would be wrong.

Having said that, I can also appreciate how frustrating it must be, and how much more personal one would take it when people from elsewhere seem to be so invested in your own corner of the world. Especially if that is the only subject they post about. Instead of concern, it can comme off as judgement. No matter how, I don’t know what word to use, disgusted? Shocked? Angry? I am, I try to remind myself how much more frightening it is for those who are right in the centre of it.

Me, I just scroll past most posts coming from those who always seem angry and insulting. Not because I disagree, but it’s like having bad breath, I may like the gist of the post, but instead of “hearing” the words, all I’m thinking is, wow that breath. You know what I mean?

I really don’t think there are trolls here, and to accuse people of being bearded gamergaters, or whatever, simply because they support Sanders, or dislike Biden, reminds me of when I was accused of being misogynist because I didn’t appreciate HRC.

I like Cronocloud and her posts. I don’t think she is in any way “ignorant” about her own countries’ politics. I may disagree on her take of Biden this time, but that’s why we post in a PRS forum, no?

I think it’s normal that things get heated in this type of thread. It is about something that affects us directly, even when from abroad, but probably more so when from the US because it’s all on you. Good or bad results, it will be because of your actions.

 

[Beebo Brink]

I think the country is doomed to failure now.

We've been doomed for a long time. What we're seeing now are not new, abrupt events but the eruptions that come from internal rot that's been growing for decades.

Biden is not going to fix our problems, but neither is Sanders. Biden won't even recognize we have a broken country or understand why, and Sanders is too rigid to forge the kind of collaborations that might help. Although honestly, I think we're too far along for even a master of diplomacy to craft workable solutions.

Realistically speaking, if we elect a Democratic president, regardless of who they are, they will spend the first term just trying to repair the damage of the Trump years. Thousands of unfilled positions, political sycophants that need to be kicked out, new talent that needs to be persuaded to work for a dysfunctional government.

 

[Veritable Quandry]

From the numbers I'm seeing, Warren is not getting enough of the votes to hurt Sanders that much.

Agreed. I was referring only to why Biden outperformed Sanders in one fairly liberal state. As much as I wanted Warren, she just never got enough traction in the press or with voters. I tend to blame a combination of sexist media and failing to differentiate herself from Sanders.

 

[Isabeau]

Though, to be fair, from what I recall it was considerably easier for a British MP -- from whatever party -- to oppose the Invasions of both Iraq and Afghanistan than it was for a US Democratic senator facing re-election to oppose either of those military adventures.

....

True, but there were direct consequences (retaliation) to Canada’s refusal to back the US. Not everyone was on board here, not just the conservatives, US being an ally, and the UK backing the US, but the government of the time still refused. It was very risky, and again, we had to live with the consequences. Difficult but not impossible. There were many in the US who opposed the war, just not enough.

 

[Cristalle]

On the other hand, people who were worried that Warren was "splitting the progressive vote" seem for the most part to be proven wrong tonight. I can count three, possibly four states that Sanders would've won if he'd had every single Warren vote; but he would need literally every single Warren vote. If Warren's votes were shared between Biden and Sanders - which is more likely in my opinion - there would've been no difference. She seems to have averaged ~15% no matter who the state's winner was, even when the win was not close a close contest.

It's not winner-take-all, so while the title of winning is important, it is about gathering the delegates. She's denying him extra delegates, and anybody that actually cares about policy should be able to do the math and see that the person that is most ideologically similar to her would need her votes. It's the same way people get angry about people voting third party. She's not even getting to the point of viability, and just siphoning off both, making it more likely that there's going to be a contested convention.

 

[Cristalle]

Agreed. I was referring only to why Biden outperformed Sanders in one fairly liberal state. As much as I wanted Warren, she just never got enough traction in the press or with voters. I tend to blame a combination of sexist media and failing to differentiate herself from Sanders.

her campaign people said that they were trying to staple themselves to Bernie. Her similarity to Bernie was intentional on her part. From one point of view, you can argue that it was precisely designed to siphon off his votes.

 

[Innula Zenovka]

I'm not saying she's working for anyone, just doing it for the lulz. Let me restate, she has a LOT of posts on a country's primary election that does not involve her. I mean, how would the folks in the UK feel if I had done something similar in regards to Brexit or Scottish Independence. Or Canadians in their elections.

Besides, I'm not for sure that you're unbiased, I have the same doubts about you that I would if Charlemagne Allen started posting in political threads.

I think if you read the Brexit thread, in which I was very active, you'll see that plenty of non-Brits, including many Americans, posted there.

While in that thread I often felt frustrated at having repeatedly to explain to some posters -- with whose overall positions I nevertheless generally agreed -- that, sensible though their views were on the face of it, they didn't take into account the realities of the British political system and the politics on the ground, I never thought they were trolling or should keep their noses out of our business.

Ishina is Ishina -- there are particular topics that, for whatever reason, command her particular attention and then she won't let go. That's just how she is, and while she sometimes seems to me infuriatingly wrong-headed about something, she always seems to me to be arguing out of conviction and in good faith -- and she's hardly alone in that respect in this forum, after all (some people, I fear, would even say I can become fixated upon things that don't directly concern me).

Infuriating though she can sometimes be (and again, she's hardly alone in that), I have a great deal of time for Ishina, and always have done, and I really don't think it's fair to dismiss her as being any sort of troll or as acting in bad faith.

 

[Beebo Brink]

As much as I wanted Warren, she just never got enough traction in the press or with voters. I tend to blame a combination of sexist media and failing to differentiate herself from Sanders.

I've been braced for this, but I'm still feeling incredibly demoralized. It's not just a "dammit, my favorite candidate lost" feeling of defeat, so much as a larger picture loss. I truly feel that Warren has the best chance of being a good president, an effective president, during very difficult times. That I'm in such a small minority even within the Democratic party shows me, once again, that I'm really out of step with this country. It's not like being stranded on the left or on the right, more like being a small dot on another axis entirely.

 

[Shiloh Lyric]

I've been braced for this, but I'm still feeling incredibly demoralized. It's not just a "dammit, my favorite candidate lost" feeling of defeat, so much as a larger picture loss. I truly feel that Warren has the best chance of being a good president, an effective president, during very difficult times. That I'm in such a small minority even within the Democratic party shows me, once again, that I'm really out of step with this country. It's not like being stranded on the left or on the right, more like being a small dot on another axis entirely.

I am with you 100%. I truly don't think people actually READ policies put out by candidates. I don't think they actually LISTEN to what's said, and they don't take the time to do any sort of research. I'm not downing them. I didn't really do much of that prior to about 2008, either. But especially since 2016, I would think we would be more wary and want to be more prepared. But due to so many of the comments I've seen regarding Warren, and what she has or hasn't said, has or hasn't done, does or doesn't support, I've come to the conclusion that no, we DON'T want to be more prepared, no, we AREN'T wary. Instead, it's "business as usual" and I'm really starting to believe that we're utterly screwed.

And I'm not one bit kidding about that. I had a bad feeling in 2015 which lasted through until now, and I haven't been wrong yet. Only time will tell, but I think on November 4, I'm going to be curled up into a ball sobbing in a corner, because this "American experiment" will be well and truly over.

 

[Veritable Quandry]

Mike Bloomberg Suspends His Presidential Campaign, Endorses Joe Biden

I had long suspected that once Sanders lost the lead, Bloomberg would drop out. His main fears are (1) paying more taxes and (2) Trump. In that order.

 

[Jolene Benoir]

We've been doomed for a long time. What we're seeing now are not new, abrupt events but the eruptions that come from internal rot that's been growing for decades.

Biden is not going to fix our problems, but neither is Sanders. Biden won't even recognize we have a broken country or understand why, and Sanders is too rigid to forge the kind of collaborations that might help. Although honestly, I think we're too far along for even a master of diplomacy to craft workable solutions.

Realistically speaking, if we elect a Democratic president, regardless of who they are, they will spend the first term just trying to repair the damage of the Trump years. Thousands of unfilled positions, political sycophants that need to be kicked out, new talent that needs to be persuaded to work for a dysfunctional government.

It certainly doesn't help that one party in our two party nation has decided that winning at any cost to keep power is the way to go, democracy be damned. No matter who wins, that will not change. They have gotten a taste of just how well undermining democracy works and I do not mean just the 2016 election. Closing polling stations, taking away voter rights, refusing to negotiate at all with your opposition, using propaganda aka Fox News, all have been with us for some time now. Citizens United was also another colossal thrust to the heart.

Every person with a billion or few hundred million knows that they can either attempt to buy the presidency outright (Bloomberg) or use their money to control it with new technology (Mercer family - Cambridge Analytica) or create super pacs in which they can hide their identity.

Our democracy is severely wounded.

In addition, Trump has been incredibly successful at completely dismantling many of our protections, along with Mitch McConnell's/Federalist Society/Heritage Foundation assistance (seriously does anyone believe that Trump would have the faintest knowledge on how to pick a federal court or Supreme Court judge) . He has largely, instituted a be-lapdop to Trump or we will remove you policy in the Executive branch. Some of these institutions should have held better, but Trump was not alone in completing this task. There are many snakes who benefit from him being president diligently doing most of the work of dismantlement.

 

[Cristiano]

Waah, the usual “the primary is rigged against Bernie” bullshit. At least there is sanity in the comments.

 

[Anya Ristow]

Waah, the usual “the primary is rigged against Bernie” bullshit. At least there is sanity in the comments.

Warren will eventually endorse Biden, not Bernie, and most of her remaining supporters are going to go to Biden. Enough of the spoiler talk.

 

[Veritable Quandry]

I have a few problems with the theory that Warren is staying in to hurt Sanders.

First, it isn't working. In a small number of states, she did get enough votes to prevent Sanders from a majority IF every Warren voter would be a Sanders voter. Just on a gut level, I'd predict a 2:1 split for her voters to Sanders and Biden. I know a fair number of Warren supporters who don't like Sanders.

Second, it assumes a level of coordination that the Democratic Party has never been capable of. I can see individuals like Bloomberg working against Sanders, but the party as a whole makes a sack of kittens look organized. There are no shadowy figures pulling the strings, or at least they are all pulling in different directions.

Third, what's the upside for Warren? She is a US Senator in a state with a Republican governor, so bribing her with a Cabinet position seems to be outside her current ambitions and puts the balance in the Senate at risk. She's good where she is now.

It is far easier to explain Warren staying in the race to gain delegates to have influence in policy at the Convention. She has a long history of caring very deeply about policy positions, and having a voice in the platform does make sense for her.

 

[Anya Ristow]

The next debate will have just Bernie, Joe and Elizabeth. This is going to be uncomfortable for two of them.

 

[Cristiano]

Joe Biden's Super Tuesday comeback

Joe Biden, for all intents and purposes, gets the two-person race he wanted.

www.politico.com

 

[Aeon Jiminy]

Michael Bloomberg Drops Out Of Presidential Race, Endorses Joe Biden

 

[Aeon Jiminy]

She will assess the path forward with her team on Wednesday, a Warren aide told CNN.
Elizabeth Warren suffers embarrassing defeat in home state of Massachusetts

 

[Jolene Benoir]

Waah, the usual “the primary is rigged against Bernie” bullshit. At least there is sanity in the comments.

It was Super Tuesday, ffs. That is what gives us a better picture of who is going to proceed and who is not. What was it, 4 states that had previously voted? By that logic the Democratic contender should be decided by those four states? Also by that logic Bernie should have dropped out in 2016 when he was behind in delegates after Super Tuesday. Super Tuesday Results 2016: Democratic Vote Totals & Delegate Count

We could always be like Republicans and flat out not allow any challengers, but we are not them.