Democratic Party Presidential Candidates for 2020

[Cristalle]

We know Assad used banned weapons on his own people, bombing, imprisonments and torture; and we know we’ve abandoned the Kurds after taking their support, which has cost them lives.

I don’t watch TV, so I might be missing all this “trying to get us into a war,” who is doing that? The CIA wouldn’t do open propaganda so who is being a mouthpiece and can we show who they work for? We already know there are Republicans pushing for a war with Iran but pulling support from the Kurds makes that more likely, not less. Certainly no one outside of the Republicans is pushing for war with Iran.

I don’t do political YouTube, so whatever is going on over there doesn’t reach me - and a lot of people can say the same. Who exactly is doing all this warmongering on the Democrats’ side? And do you think they are in cahoots with the Republicans?

NBC/MSNBC has a bunch of CIA/NSA/FBI officials on TV. Former CIA Director John Brennan is the prime one. The New York Times, which peddled us into Iraq, is routinely complicit because of the access method of journalism, cozying up with officials to keep getting access to them, acting as stenographers. Fucking MSNBC has even been whitewashing John Bolton since he left the Administration. It will only be a matter of time before he gets a regular commentator gig there, or maybe on CNN.

It's not a matter of being "in cahoots" with Republicans. It's the fact that the corporations by and large control our politicians, and there merely are two wings of that organization because they're both funded by them, and so are their media arms. One is more sanctimonious and conservative, the other is less racist and more socially liberal, but they all worship Mammon and bow down to the money.

 

[Eunoli]

I have and am becoming more and more uncomfortable with how often the posts in this thread follow alt-right talking points pretty damn closely.

 

[Brenda Archer]

I have and am becoming more and more uncomfortable with how often the posts in this thread follow alt-right talking points pretty damn closely.

Yes. A big part of why I stay off political YouTube.

 

[Cristalle]

I have and am becoming more and more uncomfortable with how often the posts in this thread follow alt-right talking points pretty damn closely.

They are not "alt-right talking points." Everything being cited has proof, if you'd bother to actually look.

 

[Clara D.]

They are not "alt-right talking points." Everything being cited has proof, if you'd bother to actually look.

NO U.

Why should it be on us to "JUS GOOGLE IT U NOOBS?" when you're the one making the assertations?

 

[Clara D.]

I have and am becoming more and more uncomfortable with how often the posts in this thread follow alt-right talking points pretty damn closely.

"Ignore" can be a sanity saver some days.

 

[Cristalle]

NO U.

Why should it be on us to "JUS GOOGLE IT U NOOBS?" when you're the one making the assertations?

I've been giving commentary that is based off of stuff reported in the media, including the last one which has video sources of Congressional testimony, articles from Reuters, etc. and stuff being reported by independent journalists who have been on the ground. I've given it to you, by and large, but if you don't want to listen, that's on you. But people like you are exactly how we can get lied into wars, and then you want to cry about resisting Trump and the GOP. Please.

 

[Brenda Archer]

NBC/MSNBC has a bunch of CIA/NSA/FBI officials on TV. Former CIA Director John Brennan is the prime one. The New York Times, which peddled us into Iraq, is routinely complicit because of the access method of journalism, cozying up with officials to keep getting access to them, acting as stenographers. Fucking MSNBC has even been whitewashing John Bolton since he left the Administration. It will only be a matter of time before he gets a regular commentator gig there, or maybe on CNN.

It's not a matter of being "in cahoots" with Republicans. It's the fact that the corporations by and large control our politicians, and there merely are two wings of that organization because they're both funded by them, and so are their media arms. One is more sanctimonious and conservative, the other is less racist and more socially liberal, but they all worship Mammon and bow down to the money.

The corporations thing is no surprise to any leftist. I recommend this book:
Amazon.com: When Corporations Rule the World eBook: David C. Korten: Kindle Store

When corporations are viewed in this way, Warren's efforts to ring fence the damage they do make more sense. Corporations are a creation of law, and deeply altering the law on which they are based first requires a government based on the rule of law.

I've never considered MSNBC to be anything but right wing, and that goes for most TV; NYT has been a problem for a long time too. I don't make these corporations into authority figures. If something is multi sourced from standard sources, it's probably true; especially if the specialist press for related professions is following the same theme. I find I learn a lot from military people talking to each other - and it doesn't always look like Republican Party propaganda. Boots on the literal ground.

To get the means of production back from corporations could be done by socializing it (only safe in a powerful democracy) or by dispersing it to the local level and then having a rule of law uncorrupt enough to keep it from being co-opted by gangs. I believe we need a strong, democratic state in order to accomplish either goal. I'm so very much NOT a right libertarian. We need a state, and the functions of the state, including defense; and right now, the major democracies are the best we've got for a start. Anarchism is fine with an umbrella of law arching over it. Privatization of the commons is not. This is a cause of colonialism = corporations as they are now.

I'm not one of the people who thinks everything is so messed up we need to destroy it all and start over - that way lies fascism. The lived experience of imperfect people trying to replace hierarchies with democracy is culturally encoded in my family history. If I seem sure of myself, that's where it comes from. My grandparents, great grandparents and so forth going back, all trying to put hierarchy, aristocracy and other forms of lawlessness in their place, usually by being ordinary people who would not be moved out of their beliefs.

The media can't help us with this project, they want to tear us all out by the roots in the quest to seize ever more of whatever is left in the commons and the private economy that isn't financialized yet. We need to move the economy to anarchist-self-owned production, but we still need to keep gangs and foreign dictators at bay. There's no easy shortcut.

 

[Spirits Rising]

That's nice. It's also false as all hell.

Point blank: Like every single human being on this planet, you're able to be led around by the nose so long as what you're being led around with plays to your own ideas and ideals.

No one - at all - is in posession of The Truth. Deal with it.

One side of our political system long ago learned how to weaponize that and the other is only recently catching up - this says little of the minor players, who have also been using this in varying forms for some time.

Welcome to politics in general.

1. Cite provable facts - things that are on as neutral a record as possible
2. Take all news sources with a grain of salt - at minimum
3. Pay attention to politicians whose ideas/ideals closely match your own
4. Be ready to compromise - no questions or excuses
5. Stop pretending any large, sweeping change is going to happen in this country short of revolution

If you cannot follow the above, you're better off living in an isolated bunker or at the very least limiting your participation/discussion to far less serious things.

 

[Brenda Archer]

That's nice. It's also false as all hell.

Point blank: Like every single human being on this planet, you're able to be led around by the nose so long as what you're being led around with plays to your own ideas and ideals.

No one - at all - is in posession of The Truth. Deal with it.

One side of our political system long ago learned how to weaponize that and the other is only recently catching up - this says little of the minor players, who have also been using this in varying forms for some time.

Welcome to politics in general.

1. Cite provable facts - things that are on as neutral a record as possible
2. Take all news sources with a grain of salt - at minimum
3. Pay attention to politicians whose ideas/ideals closely match your own
4. Be ready to compromise - no questions or excuses
5. Stop pretending any large, sweeping change is going to happen in this country short of revolution

If you cannot follow the above, you're better off living in an isolated bunker or at the very least limiting your participation/discussion to far less serious things.

Revolution, really? Who do you want to be the next gang in charge?

We might get collapse, certainly - you and I will be dead if that happens.

My distaste for solutions that cause large numbers of dead people isn't because I'm "lied to."

 

[Cristalle]

I don't need the lecture, thanks, spare the sanctimony. I don't put up things that are demonstrably false, and there are usually citations inside the videos. And I'm under no illusion that we have perfect candidates or politicians, they all have their weaknesses. But some more than others.

As for revolution: we had the Civil Rights movement, Women's Suffrage, Reproductive rights, LGBTQ rights. Those were large, sweeping changes that occurred without revolution. And that's what people are pushing for again. I am no anarchist. I am more of a social democrat (not the inverse).

 

[Spirits Rising]

Revolution, really? Who do you want to be the next gang in charge?

We might get collapse, certainly - you and I will be dead if that happens.

My distaste for solutions that cause large numbers of dead people isn't because I'm "lied to."

Did I state that such was what I'd prefer to have happen? No, I did not nor was my response at all related to yours though I will state that I have a rather large distaste for anarchists and anarchy in general.

 

[Spirits Rising]

I don't need the lecture, thanks, spare the sanctimony. I don't put up things that are demonstrably false, and there are usually citations inside the videos. And I'm under no illusion that we have perfect candidates or politicians, they all have their weaknesses. But some more than others.

As for revolution: we had the Civil Rights movement, Women's Suffrage, Reproductive rights, LGBTQ rights. Those were large, sweeping changes that occurred without revolution. And that's what people are pushing for again. I am no anarchist. I am more of a social democrat (not the inverse).

Yes, you apprently did need the "lecture" - deal with it.

Ah yes, such a nice list of movements, all of which took years to see anything come of them - if you want to see any sweeping changes then buckle the fuck up, its going to take just as long.

Want to speed things along? Good fucking luck with that.

 

[Cristalle]

Yes, you apprently did need the "lecture" - deal with it.

Ah yes, such a nice list of movements, all of which took years to see anything come of them - if you want to see any sweeping changes then buckle the fuck up, its going to take just as long.

Want to speed things along? Good fucking luck with that.

Yes, it does take years, duh. News flash: these pushes haven't come overnight, they are years in the making. And it's going to take years more. I already know that.

 

[Spirits Rising]

Yes, it does take years, duh. News flash: these pushes haven't come overnight, they are years in the making. And it's going to take years more. I already know that.

Then perhaps you shouldn't have cited them in your earlier response hmm? There have been responses/replies/general posts in this thread from several users that are phrased as though they expect some miraculous sea change to happen along with some arguing their viewpoint as though they expect their ideals to bear fruit damn near instantly, some of which you've agreed with.

If you do not need the reminder then act, post/respond and react accordingly.

You shouldn't have to be reminded of such and your reactions to said reminder speak volumes.

 

[Aeon Jiminy]

Did somebody say Russia? Coincidence that Hillary is in the neighborhood?
Clinton suggests Russia grooming Gabbard to run as third-party 2020 candidate

 

[Cristalle]

Did somebody say Russia? Coincidence that Hillary is in the neighborhood?
Clinton suggests Russia grooming Gabbard to run as third-party 2020 candidate

lol whatever. She's just salty that Tulsi didn't support her in 2016. That's the origin of this whole smear machine. And no, Tulsi is not going to run third party. She's already signed that pledge to support the eventual nominee.

 

[Essence Lumin]

Did somebody say Russia? Coincidence that Hillary is in the neighborhood?
Clinton suggests Russia grooming Gabbard to run as third-party 2020 candidate

This reminds me of why I dislike Hillary. That's horrible.

 

[Cristalle]

Did somebody say Russia? Coincidence that Hillary is in the neighborhood?
Clinton suggests Russia grooming Gabbard to run as third-party 2020 candidate

What's funny is, Clinton and the people in her orbit have deep ties to Russia and Ukraine too. Her campaign manager's foundation was working with Paul Manafort. I'd link the video but I know tools won't watch it and call it a conspiracy theory.

Russia Scandal Befalls Two Brothers: John and Tony Podesta (Published 2017)

One was a victim of Russian interference in the 2016 election. The other is under investigation by Robert S. Mueller III, the special counsel.

www.nytimes.com

Report: Robert Mueller referred lobbyists, including Tony Podesta, to Manhattan prosecutors

Authorities are looking into whether they failed to register their work lobbying for a nonprofit linked to the Ukrainian government.

www.vox.com

Emails give new detail about Mercury, Podesta role in Manafort's lobbying

Several of the emails, excerpts of which were included in the letter and which hadn’t previously been public, raise new questions about why the Podesta Group and Mercury did not initially register with the Justice Department themselves.

www.politico.com

Her campaign manager's lobbying group was working for the pro-Kremlin government in Ukraine before it was deposed in 2014.

Bill Clinton got 500K for speeches that were paid for by the Kremlin Bank. Cited only for its underlying sources: FACT CHECK: Did Hillary Clinton Side With Kremlin on Sanctions Due to a $500,000 Payment to Bill?

John Podesta lied on TV about his financial involvement in a Russian-backed company, saying that he divested (but to a fund run by his daughter): John Podesta: I Didn't Have Any Stock In Russian Companies During 2016 Election

Democrats were the first to start tangling with Ukraine:

Let’s get real: Democrats were first to enlist Ukraine in US elections

Since at least 2016, Democrats repeatedly have exerted pressure on Ukraine, a key U.S. ally for buffering Russia, to meddle in U.S. politics and elections.

thehill.com

It's a nice projection, red-baiting over Russia when her people are just as involved with Russia.

 

[Cristalle]

Oh, and look at this:

The US has backed 21 of the 28 ‘crazy’ militias leading Turkey’s brutal invasion of northern Syria - The Grayzone

Former and current US officials have slammed the Turkish mercenary force of "Arab militias" for executing and beheading Kurds in northern Syria. New data from Turkey reveals that almost all of these militias were armed and trained in the past by the CIA and Pentagon. By Max Blumenthal Footage...

thegrayzone.com

internal link:

https://setav.org/en/assets/uploads/2019/10/A54En.pdf

Research paper backing that up.