The Russia-Ukraine War has begun

[Innula Zenovka]

Thread

 

[Bartholomew Gallacher]

Holocaust survivors living in Ukraine are being evacuated/fleeing and going back to Germany.

They Survived the Holocaust. Now, They Are Fleeing to Germany.

A complex operation is underway to evacuate Holocaust survivors from Ukraine. For rescuers and evacuees alike, it means confronting the past.

www.nytimes.com

 

[Innula Zenovka]

 

[GoblinCampFollower]

I guess. It's just that in the UK and EU everyone understood going after individual oligarchs' wealth to be very much part of "targeted sanctions" against Russia, since the only way you get to be a Russian oligarch with wealth to stash abroad is by being close to Putin, so it hadn't really occurred to me that anyone was seriously in favour of sanctions against Russia provided those didn't affect oligarchs.

I think there is a difference between "sanctions" on an entire country (including oligarchs) vs just directly seizing someone's property. I do think we are justified in seizing the oligarchs' property in this case, but at least see where AOC is coming from.

 

[Innula Zenovka]

I think there is a difference between "sanctions" on an entire country (including oligarchs) vs just directly seizing someone's property. I do think we are justified in seizing the oligarchs' property in this case, but at least see where AOC is coming from.

I don't see it, I'm afraid. She said in her tweet

But this vote told POTUS to violate the 4th Amd & seize private property - a risky precedent for future presidents, w/ so many in the U.S. already fighting civil asset forfeiture.

If the measure is unconstitutional, then the courts provide a remedy. I don't see how a vote by congress can provide a precedent for future presidents to do anything other than to ask congress to agree to a similar measure at some point in the future, a matter about which the congress will decide at the time.

Nor do I see, either, how a vote by congress to agree to the confiscation of the assets of particular named individuals closely associated with a hostile government as part of a package of sanctions can affect, one way or another, efforts to prevent civil asset forfeiture imposed by state or federal authorities in criminal cases, which seems to me something completely different.

 

[GoblinCampFollower]

I don't see it, I'm afraid. She said in her tweet


If the measure is unconstitutional, then the courts provide a remedy. I don't see how a vote by congress can provide a precedent for future presidents to do anything other than to ask congress to agree to a similar measure at some point in the future, a matter about which the congress will decide at the time.

Nor do I see, either, how a vote by congress to agree to the confiscation of the assets of particular named individuals closely associated with a hostile government as part of a package of sanctions can affect, one way or another, efforts to prevent civil asset forfeiture imposed by state or federal authorities in criminal cases, which seems to me something completely different.

Oh, I agree with you. I think AOC is mistaken on this issue. I was just trying to explain where I think she is coming from.

 

[Innula Zenovka]

 

[Bartholomew Gallacher]

Russia supposedly has around 12-13000 tanks, or at least before their little war. The question is not if they are running out of tanks - no, they are not. The questions is if they are running out of modern tanks they wand to showcase in their parade because the vast majority of their tank flotilla will be quite old.

 

[Argent Stonecutter]

"Stephens made clear that the essential nature of being Confederate is determined by enthusiastic support of chattel slavery, not as a necessary evil, but as a positive good. Confederate identity is thus essentially shameful, which helps to explain why very few identify as Confederates today. The shame of its essential nature eliminated it as a viable political stance."

Oh my sweet summer child.

 

[Innula Zenovka]

Very interesting threat about language and colonialism in Ukraine

 

[Innula Zenovka]

 

[Soen Eber]

Well ... he is right that Britain has always fought for a disunited Europe, but that's only because people tend to overstay their visas.

Such as the Vikings.

 

[Innula Zenovka]

Well ... he is right that Britain has always fought for a disunited Europe, but that's only because people tend to overstay their visas.

Such as the Normans and the Vikings.

The far-right theory (which I once had explained to me over dinner by the late Enoch Powell -- don't ask) was that Russia and Britain were natural geopolitical allies, against both a united western Europe and the US.

However, according to Putin's Eurasianism, the whole of Western Europe, up to the Atlantic, should be part of greater Eurasia, dominated by Russia, but we're most definitely not wanted as part of that enterprise since we're nasty Atlanticist "sea people" rather than nice pure "land people" like the Russians and most other European nations.

I'm not sure how Scandinavia, the Netherlands, France, Spain and Portugal fit into this, but we're most definitely not part of Eurasia, thank heavens.

 

[Govi]

I've known this about Russians all my adult life, but this reminds me vividly: their radical right is as dingbat crazy as the American radical right. Of course, it's worse when they have political power and are chanting the tunes of war; who knows what heads may turn then?

 

[Bartholomew Gallacher]

In Russian TV a propagandist and State Duma discussed how long it takes for their nuclear missiles to reach Western capitals. 106 seconds to Berlin, 200 to Paris and 202 to London.

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/russian-tv-european-countries-threatened-143016651.html

 

[Bartholomew Gallacher]

 

[Samantha Fuller]

I don't see it, I'm afraid. She said in her tweet


If the measure is unconstitutional, then the courts provide a remedy. I don't see how a vote by congress can provide a precedent for future presidents to do anything other than to ask congress to agree to a similar measure at some point in the future, a matter about which the congress will decide at the time.

Nor do I see, either, how a vote by congress to agree to the confiscation of the assets of particular named individuals closely associated with a hostile government as part of a package of sanctions can affect, one way or another, efforts to prevent civil asset forfeiture imposed by state or federal authorities in criminal cases, which seems to me something completely different.

The problem is here in the US we have a real and somewhat unacknowledged problem with police of all types seizing money and assets from all classes of society without trial or even charges against the owner under civil asset forfeiture. And the courts have upheld the practice as constitutional even though citizens when informed of particular incidents say that can't be real or how is that legal.
AOC is one of the few politicians who acknowledge the problem is real, so in my mind she gets real credit for that.

 

[Bartholomew Gallacher]

The whole police in the US is just one big problem, and prisons as well.

 

[Sid]

In Russian TV a propagandist and State Duma discussed how long it takes for their nuclear missiles to reach Western capitals. 106 seconds to Berlin, 200 to Paris and 202 to London.

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/russian-tv-european-countries-threatened-143016651.html

Did they discuss too how long it would take for them to get that favor returned on St Petersburg, Moskow and all those other fine Russian cities?
An atomic war can't be won. Or only at a price so that you don't even want to win.

 

[Arkady Arkright]

In Russian TV a propagandist and State Duma discussed how long it takes for their nuclear missiles to reach Western capitals. 106 seconds to Berlin, 200 to Paris and 202 to London.

...Shortly before salvos of sea-launched nuclear missiles reduce Russia to a smoking radioactive wasteland.

(eta: Sorry Sid, only just saw your post)