Texas Heartbeat Abortion Law

Dakota Tebaldi

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So you're argument is to not try and use the religious right's framing against them, but to continue fighting within and against that framing, until someone figures out, in some way, at sometime, ways to overcome it.
Yes, that is my argument.

"Because a religion has decided it's a religious ritual for them" is not the reason that women should have protected legal access to abortion.

Think about this. In even the best possible case, this argument forces the government to carve out a "religious exemption" that nobody who isn't a member of the "Satanic Temple" and willing to participate in a "satanic ritual" is able to benefit from.
 

Fionalein

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Think about this. In even the best possible case, this argument forces the government to carve out a "religious exemption" that nobody who isn't a member of the "Satanic Temple" and willing to participate in a "satanic ritual" is able to benefit from.
Hurray, converts :cheer:
 

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Yes, that is my argument.

"Because a religion has decided it's a religious ritual for them" is not the reason that women should have protected legal access to abortion.

Think about this. In even the best possible case, this argument forces the government to carve out a "religious exemption" that nobody who isn't a member of the "Satanic Temple" and willing to participate in a "satanic ritual" is able to benefit from.
Then I guess for people who could benefit from this clever ruse, they'll just have to carry a child they don't want to term, arrange to go out of state, or try to get an abortion illegally -- and in complete secrecy considering the portion of the bill allowing lawsuits.
 
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Dakota Tebaldi

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Then I guess for people who could benefit from this clever ruse, they'll just have to carry a child they don't want to term, arrange to go out of state, or try to get an abortion illegally -- and in complete secrecy considering the portion of the bill allowing lawsuits.
I said "the best possible case", but maybe that wording is misleading because that possibility is like too small to be seen with the naked eye. The argument's not really going to work at all of course. But whether it fails or not, the rhetoric it uses is gonna have dangerous effects on the issue that will linger, and quite possibly never go away.

For now it sounds like women will have to go out of state. In the meantime though, the Texas law needs to be fought of course but with arguments that actually make at least some sense.
 

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For now it sounds like women will have to go out of state.
And likely have to do some fund raising to pay for the potential lawsuits they could incur, and if they get a ride, fund raising for the people who drive them for the potential lawsuits *they* could incur, and so on.

Of course, this assumes they can actually arrange for such a trip out of state in the first place. Texas is not exactly surrounded by liberally-minded states.

In the meantime though, the Texas law needs to be fought of course but with arguments that actually make at least some sense.
Um, but here's the thing. The Satanic Temple is not making a legal argument against any law.

Instead, they're asking that the FDA grant them unrestricted access to abortifacients and be allowed to use them without government interference. There's precedent to providing unrestricted access to drugs for religious purposes.

If their tactic works (and yes it's doubtful, considering the lack of a true Lady Justice behind the courts these days), it doesn't interfere with anything on the common law side of abortion. Also, the Temple is not asking for this in just Texas, but anywhere they practice.

You can complain all you want, but what legal elements there are to their "argument," it's on the grounds of religious freedom.
 

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Is there any logical reason to live in Texas?
Yes, to overthrow the system. Georgia already flipped blue in the last general election. Texas is heading that way, but doesn't have enough people in the cities yet.

Also, no state income tax if that floats your boat.
 

Dakota Tebaldi

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Instead, they're asking that the FDA grant them unrestricted access to abortifacients and be allowed to use them without government interference. There's precedent to providing unrestricted access to drugs for religious purposes.

If their tactic works (and yes it's doubtful, considering the lack of a true Lady Justice behind the courts these days), it doesn't interfere with anything on the common law side of abortion. Also, the Temple is not asking for this in just Texas, but anywhere they practice.
Yeah but that's exactly the thing. If the government grants this right it will be only for Satanic temple members and literally no one else. Because that's what the precedent is - as with for instance peyote, which wasn't made available to everyone, just to Native American Church members. That's fine and for the greater good that Native Americans get exclusive access to peyote for their traditional ceremonies because nobody else needs to use peyote; but it is not for the greater good that a couple dozen women get protected-class access to abortifacents in Texas as a religious practice, while the vast overwhelming majority of Texan women who deserve access for medical and self-determination reasons get denied.

The Satanic temple has a history of trolling in attempts to get "religious exemptions" under the law in general cancelled. Lugging their statue around and demanding that it be put up on city property for example, isn't because the Satanic temple actually wants the statue to be put up in front of courthouses or in public parks for Christmas; the statue is actually meant to be so offensive that Christians will willingly give up the right to put up their own religious statues in order to make sure the Satanic one doesn't get to stay. If it works as intended, a local city will cancel religious displays altogether, which is a win. On the other hand, if it doesn't work as intended, and the city actually lets the statue stay, that's not a win in the same sense but at least it's still "funny" because the fuddy-duddies have to see and be offended by the statue whenever they visit the park now and there's nothing they can do about it, so it's not entirely a loss either.

But it's wrongheaded of them to approach this issue in the same way. Because in this case, rather than "either religious exemptions are eliminated OR the fundies have to rage impotently", the two options are "nothing changes at all OR a religious exemption purely for Satanic Temple members is created", both of which give them plenty of publicity per usual but neither of which actually advances or restores the cause of women's reproductive rights (and even harms the cause by injecting "religious rights" into a secular civil rights issue), AND a "win" in this case establishes a new religious exemption which is exactly the kind of thing they up until now claimed to fight against.
 

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Evernote link

Texas-based American Airlines, Dell and AT&T were among more than a dozen companies and business groups the Financial Times contacted that have previously spoken out against controversial legislation in Texas and elsewhere. The companies either declined to comment or did not respond to a request to comment on the new abortion restrictions.

Some smaller companies, however, decided to take a stand. The dating app Bumble said it had created a relief fund supporting the reproductive rights of people seeking abortions in Texas and added in an Instagram post that it would “keep fighting against regressive laws”.

Meanwhile, Shar Dubey, the chief executive of the dating app maker Match, said in a memo to employees that she was “shocked” to live in a “state where women’s reproductive laws are more regressive than most of the world”. Dubey is creating a fund to allow Texas-based employees to seek abortion access elsewhere.
 

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The really nasty thing about this "law" is that most people with unplanned pregnancies don't make a pregnancy test before the 6th week of pregnancy, but later. So this renders almost all abortions illegal.
With my youngest, I was already more than 13 weeks pregnant before I even suspected it. Totally different symptoms than with my 1st. Even down to a light menstrual cycle the first month after conception. I wasn't considering abortion as choice, but the point is that the VAST majority of pregnancies aren't even suspected that early. If I had been, I would be truly screwed under this repressive and UnConstitutional law. 6 weeks pregnant is, many times, only 4-5 weeks post a woman's last period. If you're a woman with irregular periods to begin with, you'll likely not realize it until well after the point to which this bill applies.

I'm so pissed about this that I can barely see. This and the BS from some idiotic parents in my community over kids having to mask in school just have me seeing red the last couple of days.