Afghanistan Falls

[Romana]

To get back on track:

 

[Free]

When the tracks were laid.

 

[Innula Zenovka]

You are sidelining the discussion. I am not talking here about the wrong-doings of the PRC, nor its government, mainly about the economic side of life.

Of course there are wrong-doings at large in China. Tibet for example, which is still for me the main one. The Uigurs, and many many more.

But the European states are in no good position to criticise that, because at the end of the day most European states are morally not better than China is. Let's just take for example the refugee camps on Lesbos, Greece. Why are these there? Because most member states of the EU refuse to take the refugees in, like it is their contractual duty. Or let's talk about the refugee boats an the Mediterrenean sea, and how many deaths there are every year and how many states are nowadays refusing to let refugee rescue ships into a harbour. Human rights of refugees mean in the EU nothing if it might cost votes, that's the plain truth.

How about the deal with Erdogan, which is basically bribing him with billions of Euros so that he keeps the refugees in Turkey and does not open the flood gates to the west?

Or how about Australia and it's "No, you won't make Australia your home" campaign?

And the USA got Guantanamo, and a list of meddling in the interior affairs of foreign states several pages long, including rightfully elected head of states, that there's a whole Wikipedia article only dedicated to that and Noah Chomsky once called it the "number one rogue state ever."

And most importantly: why did China became so wealthy? Because we were so drunk on exporting our jobs there, that's why, more importantly because that's how unregulated capitalism and "free trade" works. And if economy would really have an ethic compass we would have stopped doing business with China long ago. But we are still feeding the dragon, so we've got no right to complain about that, because basically we are supporting that in indirect ways as well every single day. Because there's money to make, it's still an emerging market where you can sell millions of stuff. Money, money, money!

China knows all about our shortcomings, and when you try to criticise them, well, you've got to hear "first fix your own inhuman stuff before you come critisising us." Which happens often enough by the way. There's the Chinese term 百年國恥, which means "century of humiliation."

It refers to the time frame from the first Opium War in 1839 to the founding of the end of WWII. Basically it's their sum of experiences with major Western powers, British Empire, France, USA, Germany. And the result of it is that the Chinese have a deeply rooted distrust against the West, it's their national shame and trauma, because they know from first hand experience that Western promises and actions are normally totally different things, and since generations they're sworn to never let that happen again. Also to never bow down their head to the West again as well. They want to be the center of power in their region again, like they've been for hundred of years before the 19th century, and work towards that goal with no compromise.

All this is doubtless true, but I don't see how any of it makes the the relationship between Chinese capitalists and those who alienate their labour to them significantly different to the relationship between British, German or American capitalists, except insofar as local laws on how capital treats labour (whether within the domestic jurisdiction or outside it) any different.

Are conditions for workers in Chinese factories significantly better than those enjoyed by workers in Germany, or are the conditions of people in Nigeria who work for Chinese enterprises significantly better than those of the employees of British-owned companies there?

I ask because I do not know, though I rather doubt it. But since you seem to have some knowledge of the relations between Chinese capitalists and their employees, domestic and foreign, perhaps you can assist me.

 

[Jopsy Pendragon]

And look who in the mean time openly embraces the Taliban and shows up in Kabul... one of its neighboring countries, China.

"Throw more money at it" didn't work, so maybe it's time for "Hi, we also don't respect human rights, and we're here to help".

 

[Chin Rey]

...
and they're prepared to go along with the Taliban for the time being
...

For the time being is the key phrase here. I'll give them two years, five at most, before there is a strong guerrilla that is doing to the Taliban what the Taliban did to the old regime.

 

[Sid]

But how many extra lives in Afghanistan will be ruined or ended premature now due to the revenge thoughts of the Taliban, only because America and its western allies wanted to take out Bin Laden?
Most likely far more than ever died in the tragic 9.11 events.

 

[Innula Zenovka]

This has been going on ever since 1979, ever since the Soviet Invasion. There was a horrific civil war after the Soviets pulled out, and the Taliban came to power primarily because all the factions more or less reluctantly accepted them as the only people who could keep the country together and keep the roads open -- some very major land routes run through the country.

I think that's why the Taliban encountered so little resistance this time -- people remembered what happened when the Soviet forces left, and didn't want to see it happen again when the Americans left in their turn.

But I don't think anyone rules Afghanistan for long without the consent of the the regional governors and warlords, and the local power structures, whether they're political, clan or tribal, so we'll see how long the Taliban last this time.

 

[Romana]

But how many extra lives in Afghanistan will be ruined or ended premature now due to the revenge thoughts of the Taliban, only because America and its western allies wanted to take out Bin Laden?
Most likely far more than ever died in the tragic 9.11 events.

Aside from saying they'll respect women's rights, they also day they won't take revenge.

The Taliban Claim They'll Respect Women's Rights — With Their Reading Of Islamic Law

The militants' spokesman doubled down on their efforts to convince the world that it has changed and that it will not seek to take revenge.

www.npr.org

We'll see if they mean it.

 

[Innula Zenovka]

Ex-marine: I'm not leaving Kabul without my animal rescue staff

Founder of an animal sanctuary Pen Farthing urges ministers to get 71 people to safety in the UK.

www.bbc.co.uk

Afghanistan: 'My family is stuck and there is nothing I can do'

Afghans who have settled in the UK tell BBC News of their fears for loved ones back home.

www.bbc.co.uk

 

[bubblesort]

I can't believe W crawled out of his hole to make a statement on this. Between this and Iraq, he's lucky we don't send him and his buddies to the Hague.

https://caitlinjohnstone.com/2021/08/17/now-would-be-a-great-time-for-george-w-bush-to-shut-the-fuck-up/

 

[GoblinCampFollower]

Aside from saying they'll respect women's rights, they also day they won't take revenge.

The Taliban Claim They'll Respect Women's Rights — With Their Reading Of Islamic Law

The militants' spokesman doubled down on their efforts to convince the world that it has changed and that it will not seek to take revenge.

www.npr.org

We'll see if they mean it.

Not sure they even can "mean it" because they have no idea what "it" is. They probably don't think they ever did not respect women's rights. They don't know the concept.

 

[GoblinCampFollower]

I can't believe W crawled out of his hole to make a statement on this. Between this and Iraq, he's lucky we don't send him and his buddies to the Hague.

https://caitlinjohnstone.com/2021/08/17/now-would-be-a-great-time-for-george-w-bush-to-shut-the-fuck-up/

He'll go to his grave without really knowing this was his fault.

 

[Free]

He'll go to his grave without really knowing.

Corrected.

 

[Romana]

Ex-defense secretary: Trump's push to get US troops out of Afghanistan possibly 'undermined' deal with Taliban

Former Defense Secretary Mark Esper said Tuesday that he was concerned that then-President Donald Trump "undermined" the US' 2020 agreement with the Taliban by pushing for US forces to leave Afghanistan without the Taliban meeting the conditions of the deal.

www.cnn.com

 

[Abigail Longmeadow]

The western powers have lots of baggage due to their history with Africa, Asia, and the Middle-East. Centuries of colonialism, and in some places slavery. It is not that surprising that many non-western countries do not trust the west. It is unknown what China will do, but China does not have any history of intervention except for border wars with its closest neighbors in Asia. This gives China a relatively "free hand" in much of the world.

 

[Free]

The Afghan DJs hired and abandoned by the US military

When the American military pulled out, their voices were left for dead.

www.theverge.com

 

[Romana]

Thread :

 

[Bartholomew Gallacher]

The western powers have lots of baggage due to their history with Africa, Asia, and the Middle-East. Centuries of colonialism, and in some places slavery. It is not that surprising that many non-western countries do not trust the west. It is unknown what China will do, but China does not have any history of intervention except for border wars with its closest neighbors in Asia. This gives China a relatively "free hand" in much of the world.

What China is doing in Afghanistan? Preparing for mining, of course... and since both countries are sharing a border they could even build a train network for it.

Afghanistan's minerals to boost Taliban coffers

To date, the Taliban have profited from the opium and heroin trade. Now the militant group effectively rules a country with valuable resources that China needs to grow its economy.

www.dw.com

 

[Mona Eberhardt]

Thread :

Ah, Pence, the little far-right turd that was Trumps' henchman / VP all along... He's a fine one to talk.

 

[Innula Zenovka]

Malala Yousafzai ‘deeply worried’ as Taliban take control in Afghanistan

Pakistani activist who was shot by group for championing education for girls calls on leaders to intervene

www.theguardian.com

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