Afghanistan Falls

Abigail Longmeadow

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It is just on YouTube, and in the news, that president Ashraf Ghani has fled to Tajikistan as the Taliban entered Kabul. The government of Afghanistan has collapsed. The Kabul seems mostly without fighting. Ghani appears to have made a deal to hand over power.

There is a frantic situation at the American embassy, as staff burn and shred documents and destroy computers. Helicopters are leaving the roof of the embassy, evacuating diplomats and other employees to the airport. The airport is crowded as it is the only way left to get out of Afghanistan, now that the Taliban control all roads leaving Kabul.

This is the end of 20 years and trillions of dollars of American aid and training. The attempt to create a western democracy has failed.
 

Casey Pelous

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Who would have thought that 'Murica would fail to conquer Afghanistan after everybody else who has tried has failed to conquer Afghanistan?

Not Dick Cheney & GWB, I guess .....
 

Jopsy Pendragon

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Who would have thought that 'Murica would fail to conquer Afghanistan after everybody else who has tried has failed to conquer Afghanistan?

Not Dick Cheney & GWB, I guess .....
But their Haliburton cronies got filthy rich off it anyway, so it all turned out as planned.
 

Abigail Longmeadow

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Empires back to Alexander (Greek) and Genghis Khan (Mongol empire), plus also Arabs, the British, and Soviets, tried to rule Afghanistan. None of them lasted long. Afghanistan is the the "graveyard of empires". It is remote, mountainous, and tribal, hard for any outsider to rule there. We had no business trying to take over and rule it.
 

Katheryne Helendale

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We never should have been there in the first place. The Soviets tried the same thing and failed. America failed to learn the lesson from that.
It's because Americans, especially when there's a Republican president, think we're better than everyone else.
 

Sid

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Who cares about America or any other country that was involved in the Bin Laden hunt, and now have decided to pull out again.
Young girls will be made slaves for the Taliban warriors, everyone of the locals who has worked for the international forces in some way will be punished/executed.
The medieval sharia laws will be implemented again.
Afghanistan people will pay the price and will be forgotten soon when the last camera team has left.
😢
 

Sean Gorham

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It's not just Republicans. Obama could have gotten out of there if he really wanted. He chose not to. I suspect almost all American politicans think they're better than everyone else, especially those <sarcasm>poor unwashed ignorant tribal savages in other countries.</sarcasm>
 

Sean Gorham

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Who cares about America or any other country that was involved in the Bin Laden hunt, and now have decided to pull out again.
I doubt anyone here has love for the Taliban and what they'll do to the Afghan people. But we're not going to effect any real change in the region with guns, soldiers, and bombs. We've seen the results of that multiple times. The change Afghanistan needs has to come from within.
 

Sid

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Sure, walk in, destroy everything that you think is suitable, leave again and say the people have to solve their own problems.
It worked so well in Iraq, Syria and Libya as well.
What else?
Should they be grateful and thankful too?
 

Innula Zenovka

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Who cares about America or any other country that was involved in the Bin Laden hunt, and now have decided to pull out again.
Young girls will be made slaves for the Taliban warriors, everyone of the locals who has worked for the international forces in some way will be punished/executed.
The medieval sharia laws will be implemented again.
Afghanistan people will pay the price and will be forgotten soon when the last camera team has left.
😢
Both the UK and the USA have, in my view, a moral obligation to protect their Afghan interpreters, civilian helpers and support staff, and their families, but I fear both will end up dodging it. Though we shall see -- many of Johnson's back benchers will be very uncomfortable about betraying people who were relying on our forces' support.
 

Fionalein

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My thought was "this is Saigon all over again" while listening to NPR on the way home Friday afternoon.
No, In Saigon they lost to a Communist regime backed by established Commie nations... In Kabul they lost to some loosly organized bandit warlords - This is far worse.
 
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Abigail Longmeadow

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I agree 100% with Innula. We should rescue the interpreters, support staff etc. However, I add that our attempt to take control of Afghanistan and "nation build" a western style democracy was doomed from the beginning. It was impossible, and should not have been attempted in the first place.
 

Romana

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Sure, walk in, destroy everything that you think is suitable, leave again and say the people have to solve their own problems.
It worked so well in Iraq, Syria and Libya as well.
What else?
Should they be grateful and thankful too?
What would you have the US do, Sid? I'm not being snatky, I'm genuinely curious.
 

Fionalein

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I agree 100% with Innula. We should rescue the interpreters, support staff etc. However, I add that our attempt to take control of Afghanistan and "nation build" a western style democracy was doomed from the beginning. It was impossible, and should not have been attempted in the first place.
The US still thinks everything could work out like Germany, S. Korea or Japan... completely ignoring the fact even Germany only succeeded on a second try.
 
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Sure, walk in, destroy everything that you think is suitable, leave again and say the people have to solve their own problems.
It worked so well in Iraq, Syria and Libya as well.
What else?
Should they be grateful and thankful too?
We should never have gone to those places, Vietnam, our unofficial wars in South America and so on. Ah well, not that the presidents listen to me.
 
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Innula Zenovka

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Evernote link

Others said their relatives were stranded. Fereba Hafizi, 29, a fashion photographer from Coventry, said her 82-year-old mother was stuck in Kabul. She went to the British embassy but it was unable to help, she said.

“Many people are stranded,” Hafizi said. “They are not offering any support. The embassy is refusing to take a list of the [stranded] British citizens and offer them flights.”

She added: “In the press, they’ve declared that flights are being arranged for the return of British nationals, which everyone expects to assume it includes any British national.

“Unfortunately, the rule only applies to the British nationals that worked or are working in some form of government jobs.”

Evernote link

I have nearly completed two simultaneous degrees from two of the best universities in Afghanistan. I should have graduated in November from the American University of Afghanistan and Kabul University, but this morning everything flashed before my eyes.

I worked for so many days and nights to become the person I am today, and this morning when I reached home, the very first thing my sisters and I did was hide our IDs, diplomas and certificates. It was devastating. Why should we hide the things that we should be proud of? In Afghanistan now we are not allowed to be known as the people we are.

As a woman, I feel like I am the victim of this political war that men started. I felt like I can no longer laugh out loud, I can no longer listen to my favourite songs, I can no longer meet my friends in our favourite cafe, I can no longer wear my favourite yellow dress or pink lipstick. And I can no longer go to my job or finish the university degree that I worked for years to achieve.
 
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