Coup in the USA?

Pancake

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This is at the top of Reddit right now. It's video of the woman who got shot yesterday dying. She died while trying to breach the barrier security set up to protect congress people. She was literally trying to attack members of congress.

Fox news spent a lot of time yesterday telling people she's a hero. Apparently, she's a USAF vet and a mother and all that bullshit. Fuck that. She's a murderous terrorist who got stopped. Also note, they only used one bullet to put her down. If she was black, every cop in that hallway would have emptied their clips on her.

I often have to pause and remind myself that as a Canadian, my laws, my culture, my relationship with law enforcement and government officials is very different. So I need to ask something.

If an individual, let alone a mob, entered the seat of my government, got past several enforcement officers and barriers intended to stop them, tried to climb through a barricaded door to an inner chamber where my leaders were sheltering, I expect the personal body detail to shoot. It's literally their job.

Is that different in other places?
 

Free

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Pelosi is also quoted as saying "While it’s only 13 days left, every day can be a horror show for America."

She prefers the cabinet invoke the 25th (which it should!), but impeachment is on the table if they don't.
 

Free

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If an individual, let alone a mob, entered the seat of my government, got past several enforcement officers and barriers intended to stop them, tried to climb through a barricaded door to an inner chamber where my leaders were sheltering, I expect the personal body detail to shoot. It's literally their job.

Is that different in other places?
That is in fact what happened to Ashli Babbitt. She appears to have been shot while attempting to smash the windows of one chamber where some of the Congressional staff were sheltering.
 

Jolene Benoir

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Mitch's wife is done.

In a statement to the agency she led, Chao wrote that she will resign on Monday and was "deeply troubled" by the events at the Capitol building.
Not troubled enough to invoke the 25th and instead scurrying away from the mess.
 

Dakota Tebaldi

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I could have sworn I read an article last week that a limited amount of National Guard were being called in to protect the capital. Clearly something happened in which that did not materialize. I kept asking myself where they were.

Edit: Found it


Well here's the thing about that, though. Law enforcement in Washington DC is.....weird.

You have the DC Metro police. They're like any other city police force and they police the entire city EXCEPT FOR the National Mall, the Capitol complex, the White House, and national monuments that aren't on the Mall.

The White House is managed by the Secret Service and FPS, the Federal police who protect working federal buildings throughout the US. Many federal buildings inside the DC Metro area are also protected by FPS like the Treasury Building for example.

The Mall and any off-Mall monuments (like, say, the Jefferson Memorial) are policed by the US Park Police.

The Capitol complex, including the Library of Congress, is protected by the Capitol Police (but not the Supreme Court Building, which is protected by the Supreme Court Police. Confused yet?).

There ARE places where the two agencies have some overlap, around the edges of their jurisdictions. So outside the IRS building you can get pulled over by FPS or DC Metro, for instance. But, the Capitol complex and definitely the Capitol Building itself is all Capitol Police, DC police wouldn't be anywhere near there.

So yeah, it's 100% possible that the Washington DC police had a huge presence ready and waiting yesterday, with National Guard support even, and the Capitol Police weren't ready with dick. It's not that the agencies don't communicate with each other - they definitely do. But if the city police and the National Guard were waiting to protect the downtown area north of the White House, on Black Lives Matter Plaza for instance where the neo-Nazis were gathering the day before, the Capitol Police might have been of the opinion there wasn't any kind of threat because the Capitol is way down southeast of there. Donald Trump held a rally yesterday; the crowd that broke into the Capitol Building was the crowd from that rally, and there are enough fans of President "Law & Order" within law enforcement at all levels that I can easily believe the last thing they ever expected was for Trump to send his rally crowd to the Capitol to violently disrupt the vote.
 

Pancake

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That is in fact what happened to Ashli Babbitt. She appears to have been shot while attempting to smash the windows of one chamber where some of the Congressional staff were sheltering.
That's what I am referring to, the clip Bubble posted of it. As well as the report of some agencies calling the assailant a hero, and not the body guard.

When that last happened in Canada, the assailant was shot 31 times, including fatally in the head by the Sargent at Arms in full ceremonial robe. When Parliament resumed, he got a standing ovation.

As a Canadian, I have no doubts in my mind that this would be the expected outcome of such an act, and no qualms calling the body man a hero.

I was just curious if or why some people in other countries might feel differently, or have a different understanding of the role of the security details of their politicians, or expect a different outcome.

I mean clearly, these people had no fear? Is it not widely known this is the policy?
 

CronoCloud Creeggan

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. However, Asatru is extremely attractive to White Supremacists, who view it as a "true Aryan religion" and the proper white European alternative to Christianity, since Christianity worships a Jew. In the US specifically, Asatru followers are pretty much exclusively White Supremacists.

TL;DR - it's a Neo-Nazi cosplaying a Viking.
There are reasons, I was "concerned" when the History Channel announced "Vikings". There was already enough "Reclaim the masculine bearded warrior within" crap amongst the bearded right-wingers out there. But...History channel knows its audience. Guys who watch constant documentaries about Hitler are a prime audience for watching bearded pagan nordics who represent "rugged masculinity".

By the way, that image of the confederate flag being carried in the Capitol Building?


The painting behind and above the sofa is Charles Sumner, noted abolitionist. He was attacked in the senate and almost killed a couple of days after giving an anti-slavery speech.

The painting on the left is John C Calhoun, pro-slavery pro-secession pro-nullification "states-rights" asshole, and a former vice president.

Also, Salome has exited her Twitter silence. Which makes me both happy...and sad at the same time.
 

Aribeth Zelin

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That is in fact what happened to Ashli Babbitt. She appears to have been shot while attempting to smash the windows of one chamber where some of the Congressional staff were sheltering.
Most recent thing I've heard indicates they think she was shot by Pence's Secret Service team, who were working on getting him to safety - which would explain the quick shooting.
 

Jolene Benoir

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That's what I am referring to, the clip Bubble posted of it. As well as the report of some agencies calling the assailant a hero, and not the body guard.

When that last happened in Canada, the assailant was shot 31 times, including fatally in the head by the Sargent at Arms in full ceremonial robe. When Parliament resumed, he got a standing ovation.

As a Canadian, I have no doubts in my mind that this would be the expected outcome of such an act, and no qualms calling the body man a hero.

I was just curious if or why some people in other countries might feel differently, or have a different understanding of the role of the security details of their politicians, or expect a different outcome.

I mean clearly, these people had no fear? Is it not widely known this is the policy?
About that no fear part; did you see the post Free posted showing what Joy Reid had to say about it? I'd say that Reid's observances were spot on.

 

bubblesort

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Trump is in charge of the DC National Guard, and indirectly in charge of a lot of the same federal groups that were there for the BLM protests this summer.

So, yeah...

Apparently the DC cops were under orders to not escalate to violence from the Mayor, in hopes of diffusing the situation. It was not DC cops who were involved in the atrocities this summer. [Spouse was reading from an NPR article just now - we'll of course see what investigations bring up.]

Also, I really want a list of every seditious member of Congress; House and Senate, so I can start a petition to call for their resignation. Might get more traction than just calling on my own lying pos congresscritter to resign.
Yeah, I remember the news talking about the national guard a lot yesterday.

As for the list... finding lists of assholes like this is an involved project, but not impossible. I have done this kind of thing before, and built email lists that made change happen.

This explaination could get a little long, but here's how I would approach this, if I were to get involved (I'm not getting involved):

Start with the votes. I believe that this is a list of how everybody voted yesterday, with regard to throwing out votes from Arizona, and maybe Pennsylvania. Govtrack doesn't seem to have the text of the objections in question posted yet. I think they have the Pennsylvania objection posted as being voted on today, maybe? It's kinda fogs of war stuff for the next day or two, unless you want to go through C-SPAN videos (I have done that in the past, it's tedious work). I think that things will be more clear in a day or two.

Once you have that list, though, the big question is how do you want to use it?

I don't think these assholes care about letters to the editor of the local paper. They don't care if you call their offices and tell them they're assholes, either. They are way beyond that.

If I were motivated enough, I would check their campaign finance reports. I know, a lot of the money in question is dark, but you don't have to trace every penny. Just look up the biggest publicly known donors. Here's a starting lead for Scott Perry, for example.

Scott Perry takes a lot of money from the House Freedom Fund. Who are they? Trace it back, it shouldn't be that difficult. If you can't find the financial reports, maybe find out who works there. Do they seem to hire people with a particular company in their work history a lot? Which company executives speak at their annual or quarterly conventions? Do any of their press releases tip their hands as to which company's special interests they cater to? Maybe coca-cola is behind them? That's wild conjecture, by the way, I don't know what coca-cola donates to, but I assume they donate to a lot of people.

Once you get a list of companies who are backing these assholes, you dig one level deeper. You must get real email addresses of their company officers. In my experience, change never happens when you talk to media, or PR flaks, or even buy ads to shame a big company. Change happens when the C-suite of a fortune 500 company is flooded with emails to their personal email addresses, demanding change. Big things happen if you can make the aristocrats at the top uncomfortable.

How you get these email addresses might be a little shady. You don't necessarily need to hit the dark web, but that is one source for this kind of information. There are a lot of web sites out there on the open web that post personal email addresses of important people, with varying degrees of reliability. Personally, I've never used the dark web for this kind of information. Huge note here: DO NOT BREAK THE LAW! Some people social engineer or hack to get what they want, and that's not what I'm advocating for here at all. You don't need to break the law to get what you need. The information is all freely available.

This kind of information is always a bit messy. You need to take a shotgun approach, by getting as many good email addresses as you can, but in the back of your head know that some of the email addresses will be bad. Even if you get a few email addresses wrong, you can still move a company. I mean, lets say you have contact info for the CEO, CFO, COO, CTO, CCO, and so on... half a dozen email addresses. If only one or two are accurate, you still hit one or two big movers and shakers. Sometimes that's all you need.

I've seen this kind of research called open source intelligence before. I think that's a marketing buzzword for impressing people on Linked In and selling udemy courses, but you know, if you look up open source intelligence, you will find lots of interesting tricks to get the information you need.

So you build a mailing list that is lazer targeted on the big money that these assholes are funded with, then you post it everywhere, and hope that people find it and use it to hit them with a massive email writing campaign. What then?

You have a major company, like, Coca-Cola, making big press statements condemning the coup, and maybe even begging forgiveness for funding assholes like Scott Perry. That is when the assholes in congress will really start to freak out, because congressmen do not see you and me as their power base. They see Fortune 500 companies as their power base. You and me can scream till we are blue in the face, but nobody will care. When a company like Coca-Cola starts making these kinds of statements, things happen.

Why does Coca-Cola care, though? Honestly, I think they care because they have misgivings about their position in the world. They worry that you and me have more power than them, and maybe they are right to worry. By contacting them about this, we are acknowledging that they are more powerful than us, and they like that, so they want to feed into it, by giving us what we want, to reward us for rightly acknowledging their clearly superior power. That's fucked up, but that's just how America works right now. I'm not saying that every big company will jump to attention as soon as they get a single email. Some are bound to be like Chick-fil-a, who openly doesn't give a shit what you think about gay rights. You just need enough companies who do care what consumers think to oppose the coup to put a dent in republican election prospects.

I'm too busy to do this kind of digging right now. For now, I'm just happy to sit back and watch it all unfold, rather than get involved. If I wanted to get involved, though, this is how I would do it. Who knows, maybe I'll get stuck at home with corona and dig a bit later on, but I don't have any plans to start building big mailing lists like this right now. If you do, then more power to ya! I'll cosign in any mailing list you create for this cause.
 

Jopsy Pendragon

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I feel broken.

Each new outrage fills me with the need to vent my incredulity and frustration with how fucked up this country has gotten under Twitler the Festering Anal Fissure.

No semblance of dignity, class, honor, respectability, ethics, morality, sanity, reasonableness, practicalness or even likability.

National security is in tatters. A magic 8-ball toy would provide better leadership. Our environmental protections are being gutted. Our constitution is being shat all over. Our diplomacy and relations with our allies needs life support. Our role as 'world leader' is COMPLETELY dead.

We are The Shithole Country now, and even with Biden/Harris and the kick-in-the-nuts to Mitch McTurtlefuckhead.... I'm not sure we've got the ability to climb even halfway out of this hole over the next four years.

Trump shouldn't be impeached or 25'd... he should be tried for treason, declared an enemy combatant, convicted and buried alive in a septic tank in Guantanamo Bay. Same goes for Mitch, Pence, Cruz, Hawley, Barr, Gramm, Miller, DeVos, K.Conway, McEnany, Navarro, Nunes, Kushner, Giuliani, Stone, Flynn, Gaetz, ... and numerous others that I'll no doubt think of in the next few minutes.

But as usual, nothing will happen to anyone else, and 'for the sake of peace and unity we're going to move forward and pretend like everyone's sorry for what they did even though they aren't and they'll just try harder next time'.

I still place the blame for most of this squarely on FOXnews and their associated network of political action groups. They wanted government small enough and weak enough that it could be drowned in a bathtub. And it seems like they managed to succeed in undermining it at -every- level.

Those complicit with this damage to our country should not know peace for the rest of their days.
 

Fionalein

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I more meant in a kill his presidency with fire, and daggers, and anything else too, just to make sure.
Ahh that makes more sense, but Rasputin's removal for me is not so much associated with the anectotal overkill (which is doubted by historians anyways) but plain brutal murder.
 
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Soen Eber

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It should be fairly easy to guess the emails of top officers at a company, because (1) their names are listed in D&B and (2) Corporate I.T. very often uses a regular pattern for assigning corporate emails based on someone's name. Just find some lower level types on LinkedIn, look at their email addresses, and use the same pattern to get the corp officers' email. Unless they're "John Smith", of course.
 

Cindy Claveau

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There are reasons, I was "concerned" when the History Channel announced "Vikings". There was already enough "Reclaim the masculine bearded warrior within" crap amongst the bearded right-wingers out there. But...History channel knows its audience. Guys who watch constant documentaries about Hitler are a prime audience for watching bearded pagan nordics who represent "rugged masculinity".
History Channel gets plenty of blame for dumbing down history, but you're ignoring shows like "Duck Dynasty" and others on TLC/Discovery that idolize stupidity and rejection of facts and science.

I've said several times that some of the racists in the photos remind me of Duck Dynasty rejects. I think that's it.
 

CronoCloud Creeggan

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but you're ignoring shows like "Duck Dynasty" and others on TLC/Discovery that idolize stupidity and rejection of facts and science.

I've said several times that some of the racists in the photos remind me of Duck Dynasty rejects. I think that's it.
Oh I most certainly agree and almost mentioned Duck Dynasty's veneration of rednecky right-wing masculinity in my post!