2020 Democratic Primary

Eunoli

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That's a pretty bold statement, based on what exactly? There are some times when I do see some things that seem like propaganda but there are some very normal dissident voices with valid viewpoints. To just handwave it all away as propaganda is lazy, honestly.
RT America is still owned by (ANO) TV-Novosti - the Russian propaganda outlet. The network is forced to register as a foreign agent by the US Government. It is a commonly known sower of disinformation put forth by the Kremlin. The government (even Trump's government) classifies them as a Russian propaganda outlet. Putin is paying for it all. Putin is a very smart, very crafty man. He doesn't pay for things that aren't going to help Russia.

I know you won't agree with me no matter how many links I post. But, just for the other people, I'll post them.

Here’s What Russian Disinfo Sites Want You to Believe About Impeachment (RT and Sputnik are the two mentioned)

State report: Russian, Chinese and Iranian disinformation narratives echo one another
Politico said:
In addition to flagging the Russian government's intimation that Gates may have been read in on the virus’ spread, the report cited material from all three governments calling coronavirus a U.S. bioweapon. It noted the infamous tweet from Chinese Ministry of Foreign Affairs spokesman Lijian Zhao touting an article claiming the novel coronavirus could have come from the U.S., as well as a Russia Today article highlighting a claim from the head of the Islamic Revolutionary Guard Corps that the virus could be an American bioweapon. The RT story noted that there’s “still no official proof” of that conspiracy theory.
YouTube got roasted by US senators as being the 'vehicle of choice' for Russian state-sponsored propaganda
Business Insider said:
"YouTube continues to be the propaganda vehicle of choice for Russia's state-sponsored news organization, RT (formerly Russia Today)," the report said. "As of February 2019, RT had nearly 3.3 million global subscribers on its YouTube channel."

Here is a very recent example of Putin using RT to push disinformation about Corona virus:
Is Russia running a coronavirus disinformation campaign?
DW said:
Peskov's denial won immediate support from Russia's foreign broadcaster Russia Today (RT). The RT website quickly published an article by Nebojsa Malic, whom RT says is a Serbian-American journalist, which read: "When all else fails, blame Russia. That seems to be the EU approach to deflecting blame from its response to the coronavirus pandemic."
Here's a lovely one:
Russian Misinformation Campaign Links 5G Internet to Cancer
Cancer Health said:
This week in internet cancer myths: Russian news agency RT America has declared a “5G apocalypse”—nefariously linking new high-speed cell phone signals to cancer, autism and other serious health concerns. A recent report in The New York times debunks the dangerous myth.

As the Times reports, RT America aired its first program claiming that 5G was harmful to human health in May 2018. Since then, it has run seven segments linking the new network to brain cancer, infertility, autism, heart tumors, Alzheimer’s disease, learning disabilities and more.

RT America—the same outlet identified by U.S. intelligence as a key meddler in the 2016 presidential election—runs its programs through cable, satellite and online streaming platforms and shares individual stories on Facebook and YouTube. The Office of the Director of National Intelligence has referred to the television network as “the Kremlin’s principal international propaganda outlet.”
There are literally hundreds of articles I could find in five minutes. But, sure. They're totally legit.
 

Salome

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Handwaving Innula's background and experience in the region is extra hilarious.
I have a rule about people who dodge Innula. It remains in effect.

But when someone opts to ”inform” themselves from Jimmy Dore and RT, they‘re not really even aware enough to hide the fact that they’re being led down the path of useful idiot.
 

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I have a rule about people who dodge Innula. It remains in effect.

But when someone opts to ”inform” themselves from Jimmy Dore and RT, they‘re not really even aware enough to hide the fact that they’re being led down the path of useful idiot.
MOAR DOTS
 
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Anya Ristow

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RT is a propaganda outfit for Vladimir Putin, who has quite openly adopted a form of Russian Orthodox Christo-fascism and nationalism.

They are for Putin pretty much what Trump wishes Fox were for him.
RT hires Americans the same way MSNBC does. You don't get the gig if they think you will talk against the desired outcome. But those who have done both say RT has less editorial control over what they do say. Even for guest spots.

Remember Ed Schultz? The bulk of the interview resumes at 5:05 after Cenk's comments, so don't stop after the first segment. Cenk comes from MSNBC, too, and talks a bit about it.



After Krystal Ball urged Clinton not to run in 2014 she was told that any HRC coverage she wanted to do would have to be approved by the president of the network, after Clinton's campaign threatened their access.


Here's her description of the aftermath.



FWIW the Ring of Fire guy is very anti-Trump and anti-republican, and he's part of RT as far as I know.
 
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Innula Zenovka

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RT hires Americans the same way MSNBC does. You don't get the gig if they think you will talk against the desired outcome. But those who have done both say RT has less editorial control over what they do say. Even for guest spots.
Yes, and I am sure that anyone who works for Fox or OANN or, in the UK, the Mail or the Express would tell you pretty much the same about their employers, who I assume don't hire people unless they like what they have to say.

Vladimir Putin is a fascist, which I use here as a description, not an insult. To quote Timothy Snyder's The Road to Unfreedom, RT's aim is
the suppression of knowledge that might inspire action, and the coaxing of emotion into inaction. It subverted the format of the news broadcast by its straight-faced embrace of baroque contradiction: inviting a Holocaust denier to speak and identifying him as a human rights activist; hosting a neo-Nazi and referring to him as a specialist on the Middle East. In the words of Vladimir Putin, RT was “funded by the government, so it cannot help but reflect the Russian government’s official position.” That position was the absence of a factual world, and the level of funding was about $400 million a year. Americans and Europeans found in the channel an amplifier of their own doubts—sometimes perfectly justified—in the truthfulness of their own leaders and the vitality of their own media. RT’s slogan, “Question More,” inspired an appetite for more uncertainty. It made no sense to question the factuality of what RT broadcast, since what it broadcast was the denial of factuality. As its director said: “There is no such thing as objective reporting.” RT wished to convey that all media lied, but that only RT was honest by not pretending to be truthful.

Factuality was replaced by a knowing cynicism that asked nothing of the viewer but the occasional nod before sleep.
RT's producers and showrunners hire people for a purpose, to advance Putin's vision of Russian interests, including disrupting what he views as Russia's adversaries, the EU and the USA, by promoting the interests of disruptive populism and authoritarianism, and when Putin looks at Brexit, the rise of far-right populists in Hungary and Italy, and, of course, the US, he must be thinking he's been doing something right over the last 10 years.

People who appear on RT are taking money from a fascist to appear on his TV station because the people who hire them think what they have to say will promote the interests of Russia's fascist government by encouraging cynicism and distrust of democratic, law-based structures of government -- they may not think they're doing that, but that's what the producers are booking them for.
That's a pretty bold statement, based on what exactly? There are some times when I do see some things that seem like propaganda but there are some very normal dissident voices with valid viewpoints. To just handwave it all away as propaganda is lazy, honestly.
Based on what Putin and his ideologues say about the role of the media they own, in both Russia and abroad.

I'd particularly recommend looking at The Road to Unfreedom: Russia, Europe, America or This Is Not Propaganda for an account of what the owners and directors of Russian official media say they're trying to do.

These reviews give a flavour of the books:



 
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Eunoli

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MSNBC has its own problems lately. A portion of its personalities seem to be working really hard to depress the Democratic vote by focusing almost exclusively on Biden conspiracy theories and gaffes while pretty much ignoring Trump's daily dose of poison. I don't know why except perhaps they have forgotten 2016 and are just happily doing it all over again. Rachel Maddow is the biggest exception, along with a few others. EVEN SO - they aren't being run by a foreign dictator for the purposes of controlling American elections, spreading disinformation that can cause physical and financial harm or just breeding discontent.

Whataboutism doesn't make shit right. We need to stop pretending it does. People can do stupid or awful things without it raising other stupid and awful things to levels of acceptability.
 

Pamela

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MSNBC has its own problems lately. A portion of its personalities seem to be working really hard to depress the Democratic vote by focusing almost exclusively on Biden conspiracy theories and gaffes while pretty much ignoring Trump's daily dose of poison. I don't know why except perhaps they have forgotten 2016 and are just happily doing it all over again. Rachel Maddow is the biggest exception, along with a few others. EVEN SO - they aren't being run by a foreign dictator for the purposes of controlling American elections, spreading disinformation that can cause physical and financial harm or just breeding discontent.

Whataboutism doesn't make shit right. We need to stop pretending it does. People can do stupid or awful things without it raising other stupid and awful things to levels of acceptability.
Rachel has said she does not report on whatever idiotic thing Trump has said that day. The rest of them, yes, they regularly chase after whatever stick the R’s throw for them to fetch, including outrageous Trump tweets. But they have a lot of good guests. Those like Chuck Todd try to act like they are above the fray and this is all normal both-sides reporting on the usual political antics. I do wish they would model more on Rachel, who has just one or two guests per show, one at a time, instead of a dozen, three or four at a time, like they assume viewers have the attention span of a fruit fly.
 
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Salome

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Those like Chuck Todd try to act like they are above the fray and this is all normal both-sides reporting on the usual political antics. I do wish they would model more on Rachel, who has just one or two guests per show, one at a time, instead of a dozen, three or four at a time, like they assume viewers have the attention span of a fruit fly.
Ever since cable news began chasing after FOX money, outrage porn became the bulk of programming. Unlike FOX, TYT, RT, etc who are committed to a certain agenda (and funded to that end), CNN and MSNBC are simply committed to whatever makes the most money. That means hyping Trump outrage and “Dems in Disarray” narratives for horse race ratings and abandoning any sense of proportion. I have mostly given up cable news programming, except for emergency and same-day important reporting (natural disasters, active shooter situations, Election Day results, etc). Mostly I’ve identified some boots on the ground reporters and professional/educational experts that I follow and read. Most of them still work for print publications or are employed by research or university facilities where they do investigative work, cite sources, and stay out of the worthless pundit/op-ed bullshit sphere. Everything else mainstream has a “trust but verify” status depending on the nature of the publication.
 

Innula Zenovka

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Lengthy quote from Nothing is True and Everything is Possible: Adventures in Modern Russia
It took a while for those working at RT to sense something was not quite right, that the “Russian point of view” could easily mean “the Kremlin point of view,” and that “there is no such thing as objective reporting” meant the Kremlin had complete control over the truth. Once things had settled down it turned out that only about two hundred of the two-thousand-or-so employees were native English speakers. They were the on-screen window dressing and spell-checkers of the operation. Behind the scene the real decisions were made by a small band of Russian producers. In between the bland sports reports came the soft interviews with the President. (“Why is the opposition to you so small, Mr. President?” was one legendary question.) When K, a twenty-three-year-old straight out of Oxford, wrote a news story in which he stated that Estonia had been occupied by the USSR in 1945, he received a bollocking from the head of news: “We saved Estonia,” he was told and was ordered to change the copy. When T, straight out of Bristol, was covering forest fires in Russia and wrote that the President wasn’t coping, he was told: “You have to say the President is at the forefront of fighting against the fires.” During the Russian war with Georgia, Russia Today ran a banner across its screen nonstop, screaming: “Georgians commit genocide in Ossetia.” Nothing of the kind had been, or would ever be, proven. And when the President will go on to annex Crimea and launch his new war with the West, RT will be in the vanguard, fabricating startling fictions about fascists taking over Ukraine.

But the first-time viewer would not necessarily register these stories, for such obvious pro-Kremlin messaging is only one part of RT’s output. Its popularity stems from coverage of what it calls “other,” or “unreported,” news. Julian Assange, head of WikiLeaks, had a talk show on RT. American academics who fight the American World Order, 9/11 conspiracy theorists, antiglobalists, and the European Far Right are given generous space. Nigel Farage, leader of the nonparliamentary anti-immigration UKIP party, is a frequent guest; Far Left supporter of Saddam Hussein George Galloway hosts a program about Western media bias. The channel has been nominated for an Emmy for its reporting on the Occupy movement in the United States and is described as “antihegemonic” by its fans; it is the most watched channel on YouTube, with one billion viewers, and the third most watched news channel in the United Kingdom, and its Washington office is expanding. But the channel is not uniformly “antihegemonic”: when it suits, RT shows establishment stalwarts like Larry King, who hosts his own show on the network. So the Kremlin’s message reaches a much wider audience than it would on its own: the President is spliced together with Assange and Larry King. This is a new type of Kremlin propaganda, less about arguing against the West with a counter-model as in the Cold War, more about slipping inside its language to play and taunt it from inside. In the ad for Larry King’s show, keywords associated with the journalist flash up on-screen: “reputation,” “intelligence,” “respect,” more and more of them until they merge into a fuzz, finishing with the jokey “suspenders.” Then King, sitting in a studio, turns to the camera and says: “I would rather ask questions to people in positions of power instead of speaking on their behalf. That’s why you can find my new show, Larry King Now, right here on RT. Question more.” The little ad seems to be bundling the clichés of CNN and the BBC into a few seconds, pushing them to absurdity. There is a sense of giving two fingers to the Western media tradition: anyone can speak your language; it’s meaningless!
 

Pamela

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Ever since cable news began chasing after FOX money, outrage porn became the bulk of programming. Unlike FOX, TYT, RT, etc who are committed to a certain agenda (and funded to that end), CNN and MSNBC are simply committed to whatever makes the most money. That means hyping Trump outrage and “Dems in Disarray” narratives for horse race ratings and abandoning any sense of proportion. I have mostly given up cable news programming, except for emergency and same-day important reporting (natural disasters, active shooter situations, Election Day results, etc). Mostly I’ve identified some boots on the ground reporters and professional/educational experts that I follow and read. Most of them still work for print publications or are employed by research or university facilities where they do investigative work, cite sources, and stay out of the worthless pundit/op-ed bullshit sphere. Everything else mainstream has a “trust but verify” status depending on the nature of the publication.
I admit being addicted to outrage.

I record many MSNBC shows so I can 1) not see commercials and 2) zip through to see if there are Guests I want to hear — my frustration is that those guests don’t get enough time to develop a concept or even express their central point. I was so glad they got rid of Chris Matthews, whose “questions” were several paragraphs, and interrupted anyone who tried to get a word in.

Basically I like all the women anchors at MSNBC , none of the men anchors. I don’t watch CNN because I don’t want to hear what Kellyanne has to say.
 
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Salome

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I admit being addicted to outrage.
Most people are programmed to care and engage. We are social animals. It‘s not that you’re addicted to anything, it’s just that you’re human. I’m an extreme isolationist/misanthrope and even I find it difficult to fully abandon it lol.
 
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Aeon Jiminy

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This propaganda conversation reminds me of what it was like to argue gay rights with a religious fanatic. They would inevitably turn their justifications back to the Bible.

RT is Russian propaganda. I just can't listen to that. I think my viewpoint is best expressed by an OP-ED from a newspaper that is owned by the richest man in the world with connections to the CIA. Yes they have been wrong on practically everything, have never met a war they opposed, and have participated in a grand conspiracy fairy tale that has yet to produce one shred of evidence or one productive outcome. In fact, the debunking of that conspiracy theory won a journalism award.

My Aunt Juanita was a paranoid schizophrenic who used to believe that certain radio shows were trying to get her head. It must be horrible to live in such fear and not have your own cognitive sense of self to rely on. Label, Label, Label. Keeps everything nice and tidy.
 

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This propaganda conversation reminds me of what it was like to argue gay rights with a religious fanatic. They would inevitably turn their justifications back to the Bible.

RT is Russian propaganda. I just can't listen to that. I think my viewpoint is best expressed by an OP-ED from a newspaper that is owned by the richest man in the world with connections to the CIA. Yes they have been wrong on practically everything, have never met a war they opposed, and have participated in a grand conspiracy fairy tale that has yet to produce one shred of evidence or one productive outcome. In fact, the debunking of that conspiracy theory won a journalism award.

My Aunt Juanita was a paranoid schizophrenic who used to believe that certain radio shows were trying to get her head. It must be horrible to live in such fear and not have your own cognitive sense of self to rely on. Label, Label, Label. Keeps everything nice and tidy.
Well, that's certainly a definitive fact check.

I'd point you to a river in Egypt, but I think it's dried up by now with all the people drinking from it.
 

Aeon Jiminy

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Well, that's certainly a definitive fact check.

I'd point you to a river in Egypt, but I think it's dried up by now with all the people drinking from it.
This has been fact-checked so many times. I'm sure one more fact check wouldn't change your mind. Not one shred of evidence.
 

Jolene Benoir

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A little, meaning very basic, research should tell you everything you need to know about Putin's outlook upon homosexuality.

Here, I'll pass a gimme.

 

Salome

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Well, that's certainly a definitive fact check.

I'd point you to a river in Egypt, but I think it's dried up by now with all the people drinking from it.
This is what happens when you let conspiracy mongers keep posting nonsense. There are no consequences for them pushing this stuff, so they just keep doing it.
 

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This has been fact-checked so many times. I'm sure one more fact check wouldn't change your mind. Not one shred of evidence.
I'm rubber you're glue, whatever you say bounces off of me and sticks to you.

You've made it clear from basically the beginning that the only sources with the facts are your sources, and your sources are without question, lacking bias or political bent, neener neener.
 
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